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  1. #51
    Banned NineOfClubs's Avatar
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    In any other time, or place.

    In any other country.

    This man would be dead. Without a doubt.

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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Boy Smith View Post
    Paypal have admitted that the US put pressure on them to remove access, so if people think Amazon and even the Swiss bank, have removed support because of some moral idea, then they're deluded. What this shows is the intimidation tactics the US will use as a means of getting their way.
    Absolutely true. Swiss Banks are NOTORIOUS for not submitting to external pressure, so someone VERY powerful has caused them to act against Assange.

    Let's not forget, Assange is not accused of ANY criminal activity by any nation relating to WikiLeaks. His alleged crimes, "one count of unlawful coercion, two counts of sexual molestation and one count of rape", on a global level, would barely rate a mention in normal circumstances, and certainly would be unlikely to result in an international arrest. It's extremely coincidental that the accusations made in September have suddenly, the week that WikiLeaks has been so active, caused him to be propelled to world's-most-wanted-criminal status.

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  3. #53
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    There is a justifiable reason to leak government communications: it keeps corruption out of Government. Without leaks to the public, Governments would have no real accountability.

    Without leaks, Watergate would never have been recognised, and Nixon would never have been made accountable, if he ever truly was.

    In a world where so-called journalists are tools of an increasingly corporatized media, where the most honest news coverage comes from comedians, we NEED whistleblowers and leakers to keep our politicians on their toes.

    WikiLeaks may be extreme, but in a world where real journalism is failing, it's just about all we have to keep governments accountable to the people they serve. And almost all of what has been released may be embarrassing to diplomats and politicians, but is little more than mischief.

  4. #54
    Banned NineOfClubs's Avatar
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    ^ I can't disagree.

    Journalistically, this is where we are.

  5. #55
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    I can't see any harm done to these leaks so far other than keeping those people in charge honest.

    Who ever called for Assange punishment should be punished themselves.

  6. #56
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    Absolutely true. Swiss Banks are NOTORIOUS for not submitting to external pressure, so someone VERY powerful has caused them to act against Assange.

    Let's not forget, Assange is not accused of ANY criminal activity by any nation relating to WikiLeaks. His alleged crimes, "one count of unlawful coercion, two counts of sexual molestation and one count of rape", on a global level, would barely rate a mention in normal circumstances, and certainly would be unlikely to result in an international arrest. It's extremely coincidental that the accusations made in September have suddenly, the week that WikiLeaks has been so active, caused him to be propelled to world's-most-wanted-criminal status.

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/41990.html
    And by the statements of the so-called "victims", even thosse charges are bogus.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  7. #57
    panegyric JUB Admin Corny's Avatar
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    WikiLeaks may be extreme, but in a world where real journalism is failing, it's just about all we have to keep governments accountable to the people they serve. And almost all of what has been released may be embarrassing to diplomats and politicians, but is little more than mischief.
    thank you for that!

    but if I read things like (just today) shell employees bragging towards US diplomats that they kinda control the nigerian (? ) government and US companies throwing parties with underage "erotic dancers" that the diplomats knew of .. I think this is a bit more than "mischief". the interesting parts in those cables is not what some diplomat thinks about whom, but what other people tell the diplomats ..
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    For sure - I don't mean to minimise the importance of some of this stuff. Some of it may have resounding impact. But, from what I've read, much of it is titillating, not world-changing.

    One of yesterday's releases was about members of the Saudi Royal Family having massive, decadent underground parties, with sex, music, alcohol and drugs on tap. That stuff is no news to anybody. I lived in Saudi for a short time, and businessmen rent out closed compounds all the time and ship in black market drugs, drink and hookers. I even went to a party where one of my male colleagues ended up spending the night with a very hot Saudi Prince, and being offered a secret apartment and a living wage to be the Prince's secret boy toy. (He didn't accept!)

    I guess the danger of such a leak is that, by making it openly public, rather than "everyone knows but no-one says", Saudi Religious Police may be given more power to stamp out such things.

    The oil company "plants" in African governments may similarly be endangered, but I can't say that upsets me a lot - they went in there to exploit a corrupt government for corporate greed - they knew they were acting improperly.

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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    One of yesterday's releases was about members of the Saudi Royal Family having massive, decadent underground parties, with sex, music, alcohol and drugs on tap. That stuff is no news to anybody. I lived in Saudi for a short time, and businessmen rent out closed compounds all the time and ship in black market drugs, drink and hookers. I even went to a party where one of my male colleagues ended up spending the night with a very hot Saudi Prince, and being offered a secret apartment and a living wage to be the Prince's secret boy toy. (He didn't accept!)

    I guess the danger of such a leak is that, by making it openly public, rather than "everyone knows but no-one says", Saudi Religious Police may be given more power to stamp out such things.
    And there's a place where someone who didn't stop to think may be damaging lives and indeed liberty

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    The oil company "plants" in African governments may similarly be endangered, but I can't say that upsets me a lot - they went in there to exploit a corrupt government for corporate greed - they knew they were acting improperly.
    And we are given the opportunity to ask ourselves how we feel about our oil supplies depending on such things.

    Which links us to threads about the budget....

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  10. #60
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    And there's a place where someone who didn't stop to think may be damaging lives and indeed liberty.
    So true! BUT, there's a flip side - the Saudi Religious Police are funded and ultimately controlled by Saudi royalty and in turn, the Mosque, as is everything in Saudi Arabia. So one thing the leaks provide is showing the hypocrisy of royalty in Islamic nations, who freely support and condone extreme religious controls on the masses, but live entirely by a different set of rules because they have the money to do so.

    Here's hoping AlJazeera reports extensively on these leaks, and that the repressed public within these Islamic nations are more aware that their rulers do NOT live by the same rules of God that they purport to. It may lead to a more open, less restrictive Islam in the future.

  11. #61
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    So true! BUT, there's a flip side - the Saudi Religious Police are funded and ultimately controlled by Saudi royalty and in turn, the Mosque, as is everything in Saudi Arabia. So one thing the leaks provide is showing the hypocrisy of royalty in Islamic nations, who freely support and condone extreme religious controls on the masses, but live entirely by a different set of rules because they have the money to do so.

    Here's hoping AlJazeera reports extensively on these leaks, and that the repressed public within these Islamic nations are more aware that their rulers do NOT live by the same rules of God that they purport to. It may lead to a more open, less restrictive Islam in the future.
    And it could lead to an even more repressive regime. Which is more likely is something people at Wikileaks are unlikely to have training in understanding. I'd be a lot happier with them if somehow they got some political analysts to skim through their material for things like this. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would raise their credibility.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  12. #62
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    WikiLeaks is publishing information about nations all over the world, especially here in Australia. You're probably not hearing about them through the US's insular media, however.

    LOL! Now the rest of the American sheep will come out bleating their media is the freest and most unbiased in the world. LOL!

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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    Quote Originally Posted by Corny View Post
    Oh .. okay, fairy tale time is over



    spare us the stories .. I just read that infowars suddenly is against wikileaks. Therefore we know why you are against it and no further discussion is necessary.

    So true. Then again, when's the last time you've met any conspiracy theorist that you felt had more than 2 brains cells not encumbered by MJ or other illicit substance?

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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    Absolutely true. Swiss Banks are NOTORIOUS for not submitting to external pressure, so someone VERY powerful has caused them to act against Assange.
    Um.... not to burst your bubble or anything but the Swiss caved a long time ago. Once upon a time they had the highest secrecy in the world. But between the US and the EU post 9/11, the last place in the world you want to keep your money, and maintain privacy, is in Switzerland. The Swiss are the 51st state of the USA when it comes to banking.

  15. #65
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    Quote Originally Posted by MoltenRock III View Post
    Um.... not to burst your bubble or anything but the Swiss caved a long time ago. Once upon a time they had the highest secrecy in the world. But between the US and the EU post 9/11, the last place in the world you want to keep your money, and maintain privacy, is in Switzerland. The Swiss are the 51st state of the USA when it comes to banking.
    I knew something was bugging me about that claim.

    ^That's it.

    Tanks.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I knew something was bugging me about that claim.

    ^That's it.

    Tanks.
    Yup! Since the Swiss caved in 2004, you might as well just keep your money in your local bank. That is unless you go to a real banking haven in Asia, Central America, or the Caribbean.

  17. #67
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    Quote Originally Posted by MoltenRock III View Post
    LOL! Now the rest of the American sheep will come out bleating their media is the freest and most unbiased in the world. LOL!
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    Quote Originally Posted by MoltenRock III View Post
    Yup! Since the Swiss caved in 2004, you might as well just keep your money in your local bank. That is unless you go to a real banking haven in Asia, Central America, or the Caribbean.

    You can send it to me.

    I won't blab.

  19. #69
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    Interesting to see the amount of support now swinging to Assange. Just yesterday morning I was actually (quite pleasantly) surprised to see one of Australia's more well respected political analysts opining that any case against him was likely to be rather weak (the credibility of the sexual impropriety charges seem to already be collapsing) and that it was highly unlikely that he could be prosecuted by the US for merely releasing information, which may have made them (and other people, including Australian pollies/diplomats) feel a little uncomfortable.

    I hope that is correct. As others have said the world always has needed some people who are prepared to call those who may feel they are 'untouchable' to account. Nixon anyone?

  20. #70
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclean View Post
    I wonder whether there are any intelligence agency plans underway to try to take out Assange and other wikileakers.
    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    WikiLeaks is publishing information about nations all over the world, especially here in Australia. You're probably not hearing about them through the US's insular media, however.
    Quote Originally Posted by nguypete View Post
    They'd be idiots if they took him out. He has an insurance file that's approx 1.4 gigs on The Pirate Bay... and apparently it's full of information (with no redactions) and is said to be released if something happens to him.

    And if anything, they'd just make him a martyr. He's the mascot, that's it. Wikileaks can perform fine without him.

    Who said the plotters would necessarily be American?
    They could be from any number of countries. Or private corporations.

    And knowing you could be taken out (or captured and subjected to questioning under duress) probably does change the stakes of participating in the operation for the average person, even if he or she believes very strongly in the movement.

  21. #71
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    .
    Michael Moore supports Wikileaks:



    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  22. #72
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    Not to mention that it doesn't take Wiki Leaks to make or encourage people to hate America. The nature of our world society is that there are always a few folks on top of the food chain. Churchill's main focus at the end of WWII was to maintain the British Empire but the Americans wrested control away from them. The U.S. has been on top since the end of WWII with the invention of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank at Breton Woods and the UN at San Francisco. These organizations had lofty purposes but were designed to control interactions between countries to never allow one to become so beligerant that it led to another world war. They were made to keep the status quo.

    There probably always will be only a few privileged unless some cataclysmic event ocurs that causes mankind to share to live. Yet after that society grows up it will still be stingy with its resources. Such is the nature of survival. Since there are only so many resources so that ten people have to suffer a lower quality of living for one person to live a good life. That is not the only human organizational method we could employ but through the nature of man, nationalism and regionalism it is what has developed.

    I have sincere doubts it will ever be different. Certainly not in my lifetime.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  23. #73
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    Telstra, why did you have to bring this thread back from the dead for such an irrelevant purpose?
    #439th oldest member on JUB.

  24. #74
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    I watched Michael Moore today and i thought he made good points.


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    He did make good points.

    In 2010.

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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    He did make good points.

    In 2010.
    History don't have an expiry date


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  27. #77
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    Re: Wikileaks : I Recant My Support...

    I support them and I'm not ashamed at all for the connection it has to my country.

    It's actually in the news again here because of something which happened back in 2011. The FBI got permission to come here to assist the government with a possible threat of a hacker attack against it. It turned out to be a cover up and the real reason for them being here was to investigate Wikileaks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    To the US haters on here -- making the US equal with you will eventually cause you harm. No modern country, other than Great Britain, has ever stood up to the evils of dictatorships, supported famine relief, helped needy people around the globe regardless of their politics.
    Give me a break. What about the dictatorships the US has supported and even put in place?

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