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  1. #551
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    I just figured he was gay. Why would he want those kisses? Well it doesn't matter now, his ass is dead.

  2. #552
    JUB Addict falconfan's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by aijalon18 View Post
    I just figured he was gay. Why would he want those kisses? Well it doesn't matter now, his ass is dead.
    Kisses seal a deal with a crossroads demon. Such has always been since their first appearance.

  3. #553
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by falconfan View Post
    There's never been any DIRECT conversation of his sexuality. In fact he has a child and presumably a wife. That being said the many MANY suggestive homosexual scenes with Crowley in them he's always being portrayed as quite Puckish and using the matter simply to get at someone else. I think wise money is more on bisexual with an acute awareness of homophobia in modern America.
    Exactly.
    He may not have been the traditional good-looking guy, but there was something sexy about him IMO, I hope they find a way bring him back in some form.

  4. #554
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by aijalon18 View Post
    I just figured he was gay. Why would he want those kisses? Well it doesn't matter now, his ass is dead.
    Oh he totally isn't dead. Just in pergatory probably taking over control. I hope they do bring him back from Pergatory, talk about a twist.

  5. #555

    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by falconfan View Post
    There's never been any DIRECT conversation of his sexuality. In fact he has a child and presumably a wife. That being said the many MANY suggestive homosexual scenes with Crowley in them he's always being portrayed as quite Puckish and using the matter simply to get at someone else. I think wise money is more on bisexual with an acute awareness of homophobia in modern America.
    If you know your supernatural, sometimes they do not DIRECTLY say anything with words. Some of the most intense moments have been without words, but simply by action or look.

    In his dealings, he has shown to deal with men and rarely (if ever) women. He was shown to have **SPOILER** hated his son, so lord knows what he did to his wife and often sets up his schemes to have a homosexual twist.

    And yeah, mealsothinks Crowley might've been given right what he wanted in his latest setback.


    TLDR: Sorry. Ain't no straight guy gonna harp on the homosexuality angle like Crowley does...unless you happen to be Eminem.

  6. #556
    JUB Addict falconfan's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by he11ien View Post
    If you know your supernatural, sometimes they do not DIRECTLY say anything with words. Some of the most intense moments have been without words, but simply by action or look.

    In his dealings, he has shown to deal with men and rarely (if ever) women. He was shown to have **SPOILER** hated his son, so lord knows what he did to his wife and often sets up his schemes to have a homosexual twist.

    And yeah, mealsothinks Crowley might've been given right what he wanted in his latest setback.


    TLDR: Sorry. Ain't no straight guy gonna harp on the homosexuality angle like Crowley does...unless you happen to be Eminem.
    How is it up there on your high horse? Good I hope. If you knew anything about civilized discourse you'd know that you shouldn't begin a discussion by insulting someone's knowledge with no awareness of how informed they happen to be. I also wouldn't suggest assuming you know everything about a topic that is completely ambiguous and open to interpretation.

    But as you DID bother to question my authority to offer said opinions about the show in question I will provide you with what would be considered my credentials. First and foremost being that I've seen every episode of the show more than once, read what would likely be considered a greater than average material on the show, written a 50 page thesis paper on sexuality and gender interpreted through the supernatural metaphor in modern American television which focused primarily on Supernatural (and two other shows). Furthermore I have a close friend who works for the CW and because he is well aware of my acute love for this series sneaks me the occasional unfilimed script page and tosses me scraps of intel on network notes regarding the series. I sadly I haven't had the opportunity to actually speak with anyone on the creative staff so I can't say I'm any sort of expert I'd say it does mean I in fact do "know your Supernatural"

    That being said this entire question rests on one HUGE assumption, that demons have ANY sexuality. If you look at the series, the sexuality of the demons is almost universally linked to their blatant attempts to manipulate human beings. Never does the show reflect any genuine sexual drive or desire being exhibited between demons and as creatures who do not procreate there's no reason to assume that they MUST have any form of innate reproductive impulses. In FACT some otherwordly beings, like angels, have been strictly shown to be asexual. Now the implied sexuality in demons could be derived from their estabilshed human origins. But humans are supposedly twisted and tormented to such an exaggerated extent that their compassion, emotions, and entire sense of self are lost. Why then would we assume that any person who undergoes such an intense psychological metamorphosis would retain sexuality of any kind? What in the show has given us such an impression other than the viewer's own perception, which is ultimately that of an innately sexual being that inevitably can see levels of sexualtiy whether intended by a character or not. There are no Spikes and Drusillas here. No monsters who operate within our human moorings, the closest thing the show has ever provided was Ruby, and it all turned out to be nothing but a long con that the audience was drawn into by our very human assumptions.

    In short.... Crowley has had homosexual interactions on a number of occasions and often shown as deriving pleasure from said interaction. The hitch being that the pleasure is always shown to be derived from the discomort and trouble he's caused the other party and not the act itself, something that make sense considering that the utmost defining quality of demon in the Supernatural universe is a sadistic enjoyment of human pain. Therefore it's entirely open to interpretation but a logical analysis leads one to believe Crowley is above any sort of sexuality.

  7. #557
    JUB Addict falconfan's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo View Post
    Oh he totally isn't dead. Just in pergatory probably taking over control. I hope they do bring him back from Pergatory, talk about a twist.
    I hope not. I love Mark Sheppard and I had great affection for the character but they leaned into him too hard too fast and he become overbearing, annoying, and illogical. I was ultimately happy that they got rid of him and I hope never to deal with that nonsense again.

  8. #558

    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    ^^^Thanks for the excellent replies, Falcon. One thing I question is whether angels are indeed asexual. What about Gabriel-aka "Trickster"? He seems to be enjoying the babes. Also, Castiel appears to have at least the potential for sexuality as Dean has tried to pair him with a woman.
    I don't think I can recall a demon or angel who appears with one gender in an appearance and then a different gender subsequently. Does anyone?

  9. #559
    JUB Addict falconfan's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by JaredPad View Post
    ^^^Thanks for the excellent replies, Falcon. One thing I question is whether angels are indeed asexual. What about Gabriel-aka "Trickster"? He seems to be enjoying the babes. Also, Castiel appears to have at least the potential for sexuality as Dean has tried to pair him with a woman.
    I don't think I can recall a demon or angel who appears with one gender in an appearance and then a different gender subsequently. Does anyone?
    Using Castiel as a template for angel asexuality they appear to be made initially in that fashion but AFTER they live amongst the humans and would seem almost to be 'tainted' in a way by human vices. It's an interesting issue especially with someone like Gabriel. With Castiel you could argue that the time he got an erection for example was a result of his vessel, and presumably Gaberiel has a vessel aswell btu he does seem to be enjoying sexual intercourse but as he is also a great deceiver before all else it's curious whether this was meant to be part of his act which in his case is not done to inflict pain but often to cause levity. Though his relationship with Kali seemed to be genuine and hint at an angelic capability to feel emotion, not unlike that Anna has shown after regaining her grace.

    As per body jumping, Meg spent some time in Sam.

  10. #560
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by falconfan View Post
    I hope not. I love Mark Sheppard and I had great affection for the character but they leaned into him too hard too fast and he become overbearing, annoying, and illogical. I was ultimately happy that they got rid of him and I hope never to deal with that nonsense again.
    Yeah, he was an easy scape goat for an episode. Still, considering what he was looking for, and then being sent there via death. I think the possibility is open.

    We'll see though, cause it seems they killed him off and is moving in a different but same direction, if that makes sense?

  11. #561
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Ill miss Crowley too. But they did kinda screw him up. He was kinda lovable last season. But they made him all power hungry and ridiculous, which just didnt seem to fit the character we once knew.

  12. #562
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by falconfan View Post
    Now the implied sexuality in demons could be derived from their estabilshed human origins. But humans are supposedly twisted and tormented to such an exaggerated extent that their compassion, emotions, and entire sense of self are lost. Why then would we assume that any person who undergoes such an intense psychological metamorphosis would retain sexuality of any kind? What in the show has given us such an impression other than the viewer's own perception, which is ultimately that of an innately sexual being that inevitably can see levels of sexualtiy whether intended by a character or not. There are no Spikes and Drusillas here. No monsters who operate within our human moorings, the closest thing the show has ever provided was Ruby, and it all turned out to be nothing but a long con that the audience was drawn into by our very human assumptions.

    In short.... Crowley has had homosexual interactions on a number of occasions and often shown as deriving pleasure from said interaction. The hitch being that the pleasure is always shown to be derived from the discomort and trouble he's caused the other party and not the act itself, something that make sense considering that the utmost defining quality of demon in the Supernatural universe is a sadistic enjoyment of human pain. Therefore it's entirely open to interpretation but a logical analysis leads one to believe Crowley is above any sort of sexuality.


    Wow, well said.

  13. #563
    Sex God MatttheBruinsfan's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by JaredPad View Post
    Great post, Matt. BTW, are you the same MTBF that used to be on ATKOL and is a fellow devotee of Alec Powers?
    One and the same.

  14. #564

    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by falconfan View Post
    How is it up there on your high horse? Good I hope. If you knew anything about civilized discourse you'd know that you shouldn't begin a discussion by insulting someone's knowledge with no awareness of how informed they happen to be. I also wouldn't suggest assuming you know everything about a topic that is completely ambiguous and open to interpretation....
    Okay dude, TLDR.

    Honestly, I don't give a good god damn who you are, about your life, about your credentials, or any of that other bullshit. We are on the internet, home of opinions. And guess what. NOT ALL OF THEM WILL AGREE WITH YOU.

    I did not attack you, but because I disagreed with you, your own insecurity prompted you to think otherwise.

    In my opinion the DUDE IS GAY as far as the TV show goes. That is MY opinion and I am entitled to MY opinion just like you are entitled to YOUR opinion. I will also challenge other opinions (just as mine have been) and I expect folks to disagree with me. It happens.

    At the end of the day, unless you PERSONALLY know the show's creators and what their intentions are for the characters (not what you heard or were sent from your friend, because stuff changes by the second on set and in production) then, in reality, you DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING AS FACT. You know some. Stop acting otherwise.

    TLDR: At the end of the day, unless you PERSONALLY know the show's creators and what their intentions are for the characters (not what you heard or were sent from your friend, because stuff changes by the second on set and in production) then, in reality, you DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING AS FACT. You know some. Stop acting otherwise.

    STLDR: You DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING AS FACT. You know some. Stop acting otherwise.

  15. #565

    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by he11ien View Post
    Okay dude, TLDR.

    Honestly, I don't give a good god damn who you are, about your life, about your credentials, or any of that other bullshit. We are on the internet, home of opinions. And guess what. NOT ALL OF THEM WILL AGREE WITH YOU.

    I did not attack you, but because I disagreed with you, your own insecurity prompted you to think otherwise.

    In my opinion the DUDE IS GAY as far as the TV show goes. That is MY opinion and I am entitled to MY opinion just like you are entitled to YOUR opinion. I will also challenge other opinions (just as mine have been) and I expect folks to disagree with me. It happens.

    At the end of the day, unless you PERSONALLY know the show's creators and what their intentions are for the characters (not what you heard or were sent from your friend, because stuff changes by the second on set and in production) then, in reality, you DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING AS FACT. You know some. Stop acting otherwise.

    TLDR: At the end of the day, unless you PERSONALLY know the show's creators and what their intentions are for the characters (not what you heard or were sent from your friend, because stuff changes by the second on set and in production) then, in reality, you DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING AS FACT. You know some. Stop acting otherwise.

    STLDR: You DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING AS FACT. You know some. Stop acting otherwise.
    I'm definitely with Falconfan on this one. He11ion's first post was a response to me that said "if you knew anything about Crowley, you'd know he's gay". Talk about pompous and self-absorbed! You may not mean to be rude, but you pull it off pretty well. Falcon's claim was that the matter is ambiguous. Your claim is that your statement is fact. I think it's chicken shit for you, Hell, to erroneously state that Falcon says he KNOWS EVERYTHING AS FACT. That's obviously your position. Why am I posting on something seemingly between you and him? Because I don't think guys like you should get away with it. Your attitude is what kills net discussions.

  16. #566
    JUB Addict falconfan's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by he11ien View Post
    Okay dude, TLDR.

    Honestly, I don't give a good god damn who you are, about your life, about your credentials, or any of that other bullshit. We are on the internet, home of opinions. And guess what. NOT ALL OF THEM WILL AGREE WITH YOU.

    I did not attack you, but because I disagreed with you, your own insecurity prompted you to think otherwise.

    In my opinion the DUDE IS GAY as far as the TV show goes. That is MY opinion and I am entitled to MY opinion just like you are entitled to YOUR opinion. I will also challenge other opinions (just as mine have been) and I expect folks to disagree with me. It happens.

    At the end of the day, unless you PERSONALLY know the show's creators and what their intentions are for the characters (not what you heard or were sent from your friend, because stuff changes by the second on set and in production) then, in reality, you DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING AS FACT. You know some. Stop acting otherwise.

    TLDR: At the end of the day, unless you PERSONALLY know the show's creators and what their intentions are for the characters (not what you heard or were sent from your friend, because stuff changes by the second on set and in production) then, in reality, you DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING AS FACT. You know some. Stop acting otherwise.

    STLDR: You DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING AS FACT. You know some. Stop acting otherwise.
    How about we play a little game called, don't rewrite history, especially when it's in black and white in a history trail. I tend to be civilized in my discourse, occasionally heated and admittedly sometimes pompous in matters of politics, environment or morality but a a matter like this, INTERPRETATION of the hypothetically sexuality of a fictional character I never allege anything to be a fact.

    If you look at my first response it's very clear that I was merely giving my own opinion but when your hostile reply to my opinion was a second entry DRIPPING with condescension I openly admit that I elevated my diction to less than subtly match your own patronizing tone in a bitchy fashion (call me a sucker for Newton's Third Law). Yet in this measure I took pains to make it clear that I felt my evaluation was open to debate and that the answer to such a question would ultimately be relative. This stands in contrast to what you now refer to as your "opinion" which you initially treated a fact, go so far as attempting to shame Jared for asking the question, implying he was ignorant and that anyone who knew anything about Crowley MUST know that because you never really bothered to look beyond the surface.

    But as to prove that I am not guilty of the crime I accuse you of here are some pertinent quotes from my response. Bolding added for emphasis.

    Quote Originally Posted by falconfan View Post
    I also wouldn't suggest assuming you know everything about a topic that is completely ambiguous and open to interpretation.

    I sadly I haven't had the opportunity to actually speak with anyone on the creative staff so I can't say I'm any sort of expert I'd say it does mean I in fact do "know your Supernatural"

    Therefore it's entirely open to interpretation but a logical analysis leads one to believe Crowley is above any sort of sexuality.
    Now I realize this reality may not be pleasing to you because of the bitter taste my thoroughly owning you may have left in your mouth but perhaps if you didn't enter a conversation with hostility you would not receive it in return. Here 's a little montage of Supernatural's thorough love affair with homosexual innuendo that can hopefully cheer you up, friend.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4xcu9XPzpg[/ame]

    Side note for interested parties: message boards are apparently a wonderful way to relieve pent up aggression resulting from stressful last minute travel delays.

  17. #567

    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by falconfan View Post

    Now I realize this reality may not be pleasing to you because of the bitter taste my thoroughly owning you may have left in your mouth but perhaps if you didn't enter a conversation with hostility you would not receive it in return. Here 's a little montage of Supernatural's thorough love affair with homosexual innuendo that can hopefully cheer you up, friend.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4xcu9XPzpg

    Side note for interested parties: message boards are apparently a wonderful way to relieve pent up aggression resulting from stressful last minute travel delays.
    Ya owned nothin love, but the two shoes you walked in here with.

    Not gonna continue with you because we could go all night, and believe me when I say that I could. I feed off people like you. It gets me off

    But now that I'm over you, it was fun while it lasted. Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

  18. #568
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    I'm surprised this turned into a big issue. I thought it was pretty clear Crowley was gay. Him having a child made no difference. Countless closeted homosexuals have fathered children.

    I don't wanna start another fight but falconfan does seem to be overzealous about refuting most homoerotic undertones on this show. The truth is none of us are the writers of the show. So it is impossible for anyone to know for sure.

    Everyone interprets certain elements to a story differently based on their own experiences. That's the beauty of shows like Supernatual and even Buffy. The monsters and demons on these shows can represent everyone's personal struggles, even sexual identity.

    Being so quick to discount the possibility of homosexual under/overtones on this show tbh seems a bit homophobic.

  19. #569
    JUB Addict falconfan's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by aijalon18 View Post
    I'm surprised this turned into a big issue. I thought it was pretty clear Crowley was gay. Him having a child made no difference. Countless closeted homosexuals have fathered children.

    I don't wanna start another fight but falconfan does seem to be overzealous about refuting most homoerotic undertones on this show. The truth is none of us are the writers of the show. So it is impossible for anyone to know for sure.

    Everyone interprets certain elements to a story differently based on their own experiences. That's the beauty of shows like Supernatual and even Buffy. The monsters and demons on these shows can represent everyone's personal struggles, even sexual identity.

    Being so quick to discount the possibility of homosexual under/overtones on this show tbh seems a bit homophobic.
    It's not a "fight" it's a discussion and I didn't discount homosexual undertones to the show. Those come by the bucketful and if it was written across the pond I'm quite sure that Dean would have a little more Captain Jack in 'im and he'd be the one deflowering Cas.

    I thought I pointed out rather lucidly based on a thorough analysis of the show that demons as portrayed in this universe seem to lack an innate sexual drive and therefore a sexuality aswell. I just cannot think of an instance when one exhibited sexual behavior without an ulterior motive. There are other supernatural elements in this world that seem to have sexuality and sexual drive, most prominent being the Shifters who are singularly driven by some superficial desire, in Skin it seemed to be solely sexual gratification. Angels as Jared pointed out seem to be capable of growing into a sexual desire. Gabriel and Kali being the most notable and interesting case. But to me in the Supernatural universe I don't see homosexuality as any eloquent symbolism drawn out throughout the series especially not with demons. And if there was one I think it would come through Ruby far more than Crowley. After all you'd argue that Sam was born drawn to her but was condemned by his family and religion. My problem is if human/demon relationships are a metaphor for same sex relations is that the show has a rather bleak opinion of homosexuality which is not reflected in it's drawing of actual homosexuality.

    To me demons seem to stand more for selfishness and sadism in this particular universe. I think the snow sets up a continuum from angel to demon with human in the middle. Angels who indulge become more human and humans who over indulge become self-centered assholes and their impulses are only reinforced by the pleasure they derive from seeing the pain their selfishness causes. Which is why Dean's perpetual altruistic self sacrifice is despised universally by demons and why Sam's ultimate sacrifice is symbolic of him literally overcoming the strongest of all demons.

    This would be contrary to this a show like True Blood or a series like X-men where I think there are some pretty obvious parallels to homosexuality that hint at metaphor and symbolism. In short I think I was in fact thorough in my analysis and frank about myself in my analysis of my analysis but I'd hardly call it "overzealous" didn't come until two days after the thread was contributed and after I'd submitted a much shorter reply already. I think my diatribe was quite clearly a distasteful (yet accurate) response to being spoken down to. But hey who am I to say that.... maybe I just am homophobic because I think sexual actions can be driven by something other than raw sexual impulse.

    As per Crowley re: wife and kids. My interpretation of the character is that he was a poor, unhappy, heterosexual married male who lead a rather unremarkable life went to hell. Got the humanity stripped from him and in the process had his entire mind twisted his limitations exponentially blown and upon detecting that the homophobia of modern American men makes the conventional deal sealing kiss make them extremely uncomfortable (notably more uncomfortable than SELLING THEIR FRICKIN SOUL) dwells on it because he feeds off their discomfort. But again entirely open to interpretation there's nothing to preclude the possibility he was homosexual and repressed as a human, don't really have sufficient info.

  20. #570
    JUB Addict falconfan's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by he11ien View Post
    Ya owned nothin love, but the two shoes you walked in here with.

    Not gonna continue with you because we could go all night, and believe me when I say that I could. I feed off people like you. It gets me off

    But now that I'm over you, it was fun while it lasted. Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
    I assume this is code for I've yet to think of a single counterpoint and will never be able to admit to perhaps having come on too aggressively so I'll just write with some attitude and hope it looks like I've won. Which is adorable.

    Also glad to know I could get you off, sweetheart

  21. #571
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Having never been a fan of Supernatural, I am merely drawing a few conclusions here, but...

    I'm assuming the Crowley character you speak of is based on, "the wickedest man in the world", Aleister Crowley, the English occultist with a rather risque historical reputation, also known for being a bisexual.

    There's also this incredibly horrible, barely soft-core, film about the same man visiting present-day America to sodomize the "constricting orifices" of young men and women, initiate orgies, and turn it all over to satan.

    Just a hunch, but I thought it might settle some of your questions.

  22. #572

    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by arpeggi View Post
    Having never been a fan of Supernatural, I am merely drawing a few conclusions here, but...

    I'm assuming the Crowley character you speak of is based on Aleister Crowley, the English occultist with a rather risque historical reputation, also known for being a bisexual.

    There's also this incredibly horrible, barely soft-core, film about the same man visiting present-day America to sodomize young men and women, initiate orgies, and turn it all over to satan.

    Just a hunch.
    Excellent. Thank you for a valuable contribution.

  23. #573

    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    I think Arpeggi has given us the definitive answer to this one. He did it with fact not opinion, kinda rare on JUB.

  24. #574

    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by falconfan View Post
    I assume this is code for I've yet to think of a single counterpoint and will never be able to admit to perhaps having come on too aggressively so I'll just write with some attitude and hope it looks like I've won. Which is adorable.
    Yes. Yes it is.

    I can't think of a single counterpoint and will never be able to admit that I am an aggressive person who came across as an aggressive person, who then wrote as an aggressive person to make it look like I won.

    But how can I win something I never entered? I was trying to have a constructive talk. We had a disagreement that suddenly became some sort of competition to be won. So if it's what you want to hear, then here you go.

    You won.

    You are the winner.

    I am the loser who deserves to have his tongue ripped out and his mouth stitched shut for even daring to have an opinion that differs from anyone else's in the world. And how DARE I defend my position when challenged!

    ...Leaving now.

  25. #575
    JUB Addict RobinGoodfellow's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by JaredPad View Post
    I think Arpeggi has given us the definitive answer to this one. He did it with fact not opinion, kinda rare on JUB.
    No offense, but what facts? All he did was to link two characters with the same name, and basically say that because they share the same, they must share the same sexuality. Doesn't quite work that way; there is simply no way you can convince me that if a John Smith is gay, then all John Smiths must be gay (or the opposite, for that matter)., even if we are just looking at inherited names.


    As a general observation, gay men do tend to project their sexuality onto others, especially if there is the slightest chance of it being true. Note all of the "X is gay!" threads, usually based on how cute the guy is. Crowley isn't gay; he doesn't sleep with men because he wants to, he does it because it's part of his job. Weird way of looking at it perhaps, but he does get some satisfaction by messing with straight men's heads; that little satisfaction doesn't really count. I think a better argument could be made that he's asexual, but that's me.

    RG
    Isn't it weird that those that condemn others for being intolerant are usually the most intolerant themselves?
    My How to Write Blog

  26. #576

    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Did you notice the two little words at the beginning of my post: "I THINK"?
    Are you claiming to know that that's not what I think?

  27. #577

    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by RobinGoodfellow View Post
    No offense, but what facts? All he did was to link two characters with the same name, and basically say that because they share the same, they must share the same sexuality. Doesn't quite work that way; there is simply no way you can convince me that if a John Smith is gay, then all John Smiths must be gay (or the opposite, for that matter)., even if we are just looking at inherited names.


    As a general observation, gay men do tend to project their sexuality onto others, especially if there is the slightest chance of it being true. Note all of the "X is gay!" threads, usually based on how cute the guy is. Crowley isn't gay; he doesn't sleep with men because he wants to, he does it because it's part of his job. Weird way of looking at it perhaps, but he does get some satisfaction by messing with straight men's heads; that little satisfaction doesn't really count. I think a better argument could be made that he's asexual, but that's me.

    RG
    I respect your point of view. But I want to clarify my somewhat opposing one.
    Here it is: ALL MY OPINION:
    The name "Crowley is not inherited. It's not randomly chosen. It was selected by a screenwriter for a reason. The fact that the name "Crowley" is very unusual and so definitely associated with hedonism and bisexuality and the fact that the Supernatural character exhibits hedonistic and bisexual traits is, in my mind, too great a link to be coincidence. Even the admittedly less than authoritative Wikipedia site says that the Supernatural "Crowley" is named for the Brit eccentric. All this is enough to convince me. Of course, your mileage may vary.
    I've encountered the real Crowley's name and data on occasion, but was always put off by what looked like very stuffy pics from what to me is a very stuffy and boring period in British history. I've never known anything about him till now except that he got fat as he aged and was prone to wear silly hats. I always considered him a kind of "Monty Python twit".

  28. #578
    JUB Addict RobinGoodfellow's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    1) One would hope that is was your opinion. It is generally assumed, after all. Read: I get that it's your opinion; I just don't need to see why I need to waste verbage on recognizing that it's your opinion.

    By the same token, Arpeggi did not express any facts, just his opinion that since Crowley (the fictional character) had to have to the same sexual preference as Crowley (the person) simply because they---get this---merely share the same name. Now, show me a study that shows that 100% of fictional characters share the same sexual preferences as the person whose name they share, and that's a fact.

    I was going to put down your post to misunderstood sarcasm, and apologize, but then you backed it up...

    2) I'm not arguing that the name was chosen for any number of allusions to it. Writers do it all the time, usually in order to foster some sort of association with the person being alluded to. Aleister Crowley, after all, did have some charm and remains an interesting occult figure, especially with his then reputation as "wickedest man alive". That is not at issue.

    My problem, specifically, is that Crowley (the demon) does not need to have the same sexual preference (or lack thereof ) as the real person he is named after. In essence, I'm not seeing that simply being named after a person gives a fictional character that person's sexual preferences. Rather, I'm debating if Crowley (the fictional character) as actually ever shown a true sexual preference, or if he simply goes with what he perceives will give him the greatest advantage in the situation. More to the point, as has been pointed out rather eloquently, it can rather reasonably argued he has not been shown to have any sexual preference, as we have not really seen him in any kind of actual relationship post-demonic transformation. In fact, the only times we've seen him do anything sexual is when he gets something out of it.

    Show me an actual relationship that Crowley has had, a romantic one, and I'll change my mind...

    RG
    Isn't it weird that those that condemn others for being intolerant are usually the most intolerant themselves?
    My How to Write Blog

  29. #579
    SoloHero
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Does any of this really matter? Having a discussion is one thing, but all this over-analyzing of a fictional character and taking matters too seriously, is getting a little silly to me.
    But meh, whatevs, have fun.

  30. #580

    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoloHero View Post
    Does any of this really matter? Having a discussion is one thing, but all this over-analyzing of a fictional character and taking matters too seriously, is getting a little silly to me.
    But meh, whatevs, have fun.
    Yeah, I hate it when people over-analyze fictional characters. I think they call that "English Literature".

  31. #581

    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by RobinGoodfellow View Post
    1) One would hope that is was your opinion. It is generally assumed, after all. Read: I get that it's your opinion; I just don't need to see why I need to waste verbage on recognizing that it's your opinion.

    By the same token, Arpeggi did not express any facts, just his opinion that since Crowley (the fictional character) had to have to the same sexual preference as Crowley (the person) simply because they---get this---merely share the same name. Now, show me a study that shows that 100% of fictional characters share the same sexual preferences as the person whose name they share, and that's a fact.

    I was going to put down your post to misunderstood sarcasm, and apologize, but then you backed it up...

    2) I'm not arguing that the name was chosen for any number of allusions to it. Writers do it all the time, usually in order to foster some sort of association with the person being alluded to. Aleister Crowley, after all, did have some charm and remains an interesting occult figure, especially with his then reputation as "wickedest man alive". That is not at issue.

    My problem, specifically, is that Crowley (the demon) does not need to have the same sexual preference (or lack thereof ) as the real person he is named after. In essence, I'm not seeing that simply being named after a person gives a fictional character that person's sexual preferences. Rather, I'm debating if Crowley (the fictional character) as actually ever shown a true sexual preference, or if he simply goes with what he perceives will give him the greatest advantage in the situation. More to the point, as has been pointed out rather eloquently, it can rather reasonably argued he has not been shown to have any sexual preference, as we have not really seen him in any kind of actual relationship post-demonic transformation. In fact, the only times we've seen him do anything sexual is when he gets something out of it.

    Show me an actual relationship that Crowley has had, a romantic one, and I'll change my mind...

    RG
    I'm sorry I used upwards of 2 or 3 words to clarify that it's my opinion. All that bandwidth up in smoke. Oh, the humanity!
    The reason I did it is because I think that what almost always ruins these threads is a lack of civility (not that you would ever be guilty of such). The discussions could be interesting but get bogged down in petty differences. I believe that the phrasing used in the posts make it seem as if one poster is belittling the views of another.
    I really have no great desire to change your mind. I think your view is valid. I just disagree.

  32. #582
    JUB Addict RobinGoodfellow's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by JaredPad View Post
    I'm sorry I used upwards of 2 or 3 words to clarify that it's my opinion. All that bandwidth up in smoke. Oh, the humanity!
    The reason I did it is because I think that what almost always ruins these threads is a lack of civility (not that you would ever be guilty of such). The discussions could be interesting but get bogged down in petty differences. I believe that the phrasing used in the posts make it seem as if one poster is belittling the views of another.
    I really have no great desire to change your mind. I think your view is valid. I just disagree.
    Disagreement is fine; makes things more interesting. And my mind can be changed; just give me a reason. Oh, and if you ever think I'm belittling someone, let me know....there's a reason I tend to get over-wordy.


    On the other hand:
    SoloHero: Dude: Seriously? Obviously you've never been a hard-core fan of something or you would understand that these are fun for anyone with a heart....

    RG
    Isn't it weird that those that condemn others for being intolerant are usually the most intolerant themselves?
    My How to Write Blog

  33. #583
    JUB Addict falconfan's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoloHero View Post
    Does any of this really matter? Having a discussion is one thing, but all this over-analyzing of a fictional character and taking matters too seriously, is getting a little silly to me.
    But meh, whatevs, have fun.
    You try telling that to some of the professors who taught me Film theory, they might have something to say about it

  34. #584
    JUB Addict falconfan's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by he11ien View Post
    Yes. Yes it is.

    I can't think of a single counterpoint and will never be able to admit that I am an aggressive person who came across as an aggressive person, who then wrote as an aggressive person to make it look like I won.

    But how can I win something I never entered? I was trying to have a constructive talk. We had a disagreement that suddenly became some sort of competition to be won. So if it's what you want to hear, then here you go.

    You won.

    You are the winner.

    I am the loser who deserves to have his tongue ripped out and his mouth stitched shut for even daring to have an opinion that differs from anyone else's in the world. And how DARE I defend my position when challenged!

    ...Leaving now.
    Interesting that you're "leaving" like you were last time. I assume that you weren't able to extrapolate from your previous almost identical response that also never addressed any of my points about the actual subject that just making blanket statements and saying it's over won't prevent me from replying as I see it as a very clear attempt to have the last word. And I can be a petty thing you see so when someone is blatantly trying ot have the last word as a power play it's quite simple to reply.

  35. #585
    JUB Addict falconfan's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    On the matter of Crowley's name the show is RIFE with allusions but they rarely if ever are drawn in a one to one fashion. Lilith for instance certainly shares strong similarities to the Lilith of biblical lore but I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that she is Adam's first wife as she is in Hebrew Lore. Likewise the biblical Azazel was the literal father of a race of half demons/half humans but in the Supernatural universe his fathering seemed only in a more symbolic sense.

    Also Crowley is actually named Fergus MacLeod, the more familiar name is a pseudonym chosen to hide his identity.

  36. #586

    Re: Supernatural brothers

    this one is hot ! ... I can't stop staring at it

  37. #587
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    Re: Supernatural brothers

    Oh God They're So Damn Hot!

  38. #588
    Sex God MawellEvans's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural -Jared Padalecki & Jensen Ackles [merged]

    Really enjoy the show. Netflix'd it from the beginning.
    "If you can't do something smart,do something right."-Jayne Cobb

  39. #589

    Re: Supernatural -Jared Padalecki & Jensen Ackles [merged]

    both guys very different.... why are people always comparing one against another... you could like both or dislike both or like one.. but what does that mean? Both nice looking lads, nothing special...

  40. #590

    Re: Supernatural: Is the character "Crowley" gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by he11ien View Post
    Okay dude, TLDR.

    Honestly, I don't give a good god damn who you are, about your life, about your credentials, or any of that other bullshit. We are on the internet, home of opinions. And guess what. NOT ALL OF THEM WILL AGREE WITH YOU.

    I did not attack you, but because I disagreed with you, your own insecurity prompted you to think otherwise.

    In my opinion the DUDE IS GAY as far as the TV show goes. That is MY opinion and I am entitled to MY opinion just like you are entitled to YOUR opinion. I will also challenge other opinions (just as mine have been) and I expect folks to disagree with me. It happens.

    At the end of the day, unless you PERSONALLY know the show's creators and what their intentions are for the characters (not what you heard or were sent from your friend, because stuff changes by the second on set and in production) then, in reality, you DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING AS FACT. You know some. Stop acting otherwise.

    TLDR: At the end of the day, unless you PERSONALLY know the show's creators and what their intentions are for the characters (not what you heard or were sent from your friend, because stuff changes by the second on set and in production) then, in reality, you DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING AS FACT. You know some. Stop acting otherwise.

    STLDR: You DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING AS FACT. You know some. Stop acting otherwise.
    At least do it correctly. tl;dr.

  41. #591
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    Re: Supernatural -Jared Padalecki & Jensen Ackles [merged]

    I just recently started watching this show on Netflix. A few weeks later, I had already watched the first six seasons. This show is incredibly addicting, and yes, Jared and Jensen are both INCREDIBLY hot!

  42. #592
    Slut portchar1908's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural -Jared Padalecki & Jensen Ackles [merged]

    i don't think any one of us would turn either of them away. well, i know i wouldn't.

    Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being
    governed by those who are dumber.
    ~Plato, ancient Greek Philosopher

  43. #593
    Sex God MatttheBruinsfan's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural -Jared Padalecki & Jensen Ackles [merged]

    I might turn down Padalecki (beautiful body, but not too keen on the face), but I'd crawl through barbed wire to get at Ackles.

  44. #594
    Slut portchar1908's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural -Jared Padalecki & Jensen Ackles [merged]

    um um give me some, me too, padalecki's body (if it is as nice as it looks) makes me want to lick him in all the right places

    Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being
    governed by those who are dumber.
    ~Plato, ancient Greek Philosopher

  45. #595

    Re: Supernatural -Jared Padalecki & Jensen Ackles [merged]

    Jensen Ackles, he is sooo hot and his bad boy style turns me on completely. Also that playmate girl that had a relationship with him said in one of her interviews that he is THE fucker....
    Last edited by greekboylovesdaddies; December 7th, 2012 at 07:09 PM. Reason: Because Im a bitch that's why!

  46. #596

    Re: Supernatural -Jared Padalecki & Jensen Ackles [merged]

    I like jareds body but his face...some days it turns me on...most days not so much

  47. #597
    Sex God MawellEvans's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural -Jared Padalecki & Jensen Ackles [merged]

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	905699 i like both of them. they are fun
    "If you can't do something smart,do something right."-Jayne Cobb

  48. #598

    Re: Supernatural -Jared Padalecki & Jensen Ackles [merged]

    I've met both guys and in person, Jared is absolutely gorgeous. You just want to stand and stare at him. Plus he's a total sweetheart (and gives awesome hugs)

    Jensen is a nice guy but sort of shy.

  49. #599

    Re: Supernatural -Jared Padalecki & Jensen Ackles [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by curiousinmotown2 View Post
    I've met both guys and in person, Jared is absolutely gorgeous. You just want to stand and stare at him. Plus he's a total sweetheart (and gives awesome hugs)

    Jensen is a nice guy but sort of shy.
    1. What does he smell like?

    2. What is so awesome about his hugs?

    3. Did you feel his butt? If so, what is it like?

    4. Any idea of what underwear he wears?

  50. #600
    JUB Addict falconfan's Avatar
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    Re: Supernatural -Jared Padalecki & Jensen Ackles [merged]

    Jared is definitely much more outgoing you can tell just by the interviews they do and the way they interact with fans. Jensen doesn't have a twitter account and has mentioned loving filming in Vancouver because it offers more privacy. He's always seemed a little skiddish about his obsessive following. Honestly his need for privacy is one of the reasons I think rumors of him being closeted might be accurate (of course the fact he was a cheerleader in high school also helps me believe it... and also that I want it to be true :P)

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