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  1. #201
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    ^
    Sorry about that...I meant that I hope that the Supreme Court sees all this stuff that is happening all over the place...not just this one event and sees that they need to step in and do the right thing.

    Thank goodness the definition of marriage does change over time. Women were originally thought of as property and marriage was originally about an exchange of property.

    "When you can't hide, discrimination falls." David Boies

  2. #202

    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Support for gay marriage increases in Maryland

    http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/01/25/29990

    I believe the legislation now has 18 sponsors/cosponsors in the state senate.

  3. #203

    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Actually nearly every poll within 6 weeks of the 2008 election showed opposition to Prop 8 in just the 40% range.

  4. #204
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Olson Wants Yes on 8 to Back Down

    http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_N..._to_Back_Down/

    -----------------------------------------------------


    Seventeen US States Now Have Majority Support for Gay Marriage


    http://www.ontopmag.com/article.aspx...=1&Category=26


    --------------------------------------------------


    Iowa Senate GOP Tries to Block Rule Change That Would Help Stymie Gay Marriage Ban
    http://www.desmoinesregister.com/art...yssey=nav|head


    ------------------------------------------------------------


    Republican New Mexico Lawmaker Introduces Gay Marriage Ban

    http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2011/01...acked-gop.html

    Thank goodness the definition of marriage does change over time. Women were originally thought of as property and marriage was originally about an exchange of property.

    "When you can't hide, discrimination falls." David Boies

  5. #205
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    What a surprise... more people with R's next to their names trying to ban gay marriage

  6. #206
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    I must be remembering an interview Olson gave wrong; I was sure he expected the California Supreme Court to say the proponent had standing. I certainly didn't expect them to go argue the matter.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  7. #207
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Symbolic vote on gay marriage fails in the Iowa Senate this morning

    A Republican senator called up a proposal that would take the first small step toward banning gay marriage in Iowa, and Democratic leaders agreed to allow a vote on the procedural issue of suspending Senate rules.

    Just after 7:30 a.m, the vote failed on party lines, 26-24. All Democrats voted no and all Republicans voted yes to override the Senate Presidentís decision against breaking the rules.

    http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/d...-this-morning/

    Thank goodness the definition of marriage does change over time. Women were originally thought of as property and marriage was originally about an exchange of property.

    "When you can't hide, discrimination falls." David Boies

  8. #208
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Quote Originally Posted by RazorzEdge88 View Post
    No, they don't.

    This is the same lie that's been repeated again and again because people are too intellectually lazy to interpret that NY Times article for what it was.

    It was not a POLL, it was a projection system.
    Have a link to explain that?

    BTW, I would have told a CNN pollster the question was wrong: gays DO have a constitutional right to get married, but the law is against it anyway.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  9. #209
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    ^ Just in case I missed something, I just read it again, and followed the link in the article.

    I found no mention of the NYT.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  10. #210
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    ^ Just in case I missed something, I just read it again, and followed the link in the article.

    I found no mention of the NYT.
    One of the bases for this claim was a statistical analysis conducted by Nate Sliver in 2008 (the other was study by Columbia university). Sliver now writes a column for the NY Times.

    Unfortunately, it is obvious that Sliver's analysis had several serious flaws. For example it predicted that Maine would have majority support for gay marriage in the 2009 election. It did not.

  11. #211

    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Maine likely did have support for gay marriage in 2009. The problem was that it was an off election year and thus fewer supporters showed up at the polls.

  12. #212

    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    56% of New York supports gay marriage

    http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/01/27/30049

    Especially surprising that support is nearly the same in New York city and the upstate region, and that the NYC suburbs (I assume Long Island and the lower Hudson Valley) support it by a significantly higher margin.

    Hopefully this will help push some Senators in the right direction.

  13. #213
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Alessi's recently been an ass on a personal front - filed suit against a homeowner and builder from when Alessi tresspassed while the house was under construction, tried to climb a ladder, and broke his leg - 3 years ago. The owners opted not to have him arrested for tresspass at the time. He has continuing pain from the incident. The county manager, Repub chairperson, local conservative talk radio host, and a multitude of others finally shouted him down enough to withdraw the suit.

    He's burned a LOT of political capital. So, I don't know if he'll be a deer in the headlights, an Ostrich, or somehow become a semi-intelligent person, again.


    And I know, if I'll only be true, to this glorious quest . . .

  14. #214

    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    I personally spoke to Joseph Addabbo's assistant, and she told me that his entire staff was genuinly shocked he voted against the marriage equality bill. He likely does support it, but he knew that since it wasn't going to pass that it wouldn't be worth the risk, especially considering his district was previously held by a Republican.

  15. #215
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Hawaii Senate passes civil unions bill

    http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/b...114803379.html

    Thank goodness the definition of marriage does change over time. Women were originally thought of as property and marriage was originally about an exchange of property.

    "When you can't hide, discrimination falls." David Boies

  16. #216
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Obama Walks Marriage Tightrope


    As DOMA opponents argue the law unfairly targets a specific class, the question of whether gay people are indeed a stigmatized class and can choose to change their minority status (i.e. their orientation) may be a sticking point in the cases. The Obama administration certainly doesn't want to find itself arguing those points in its defense.

    According to unnamed sources, the Justice Department is currently wrestling with how to handle the cases; they're required to respond to them by March 11. DOMA has already been ruled unconstitutional by a federal judge in Massachusetts, and an appeal is pending.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/advocate/201...iage_tightrope


    Full Story Here:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/29/us...nted=1&_r=1&hp

    Thank goodness the definition of marriage does change over time. Women were originally thought of as property and marriage was originally about an exchange of property.

    "When you can't hide, discrimination falls." David Boies

  17. #217
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    The article says things may hinge on whether gays can choose to change their orientation. That should be irrelevant: religious groups are protected, and they're entirely voluntary; 'race' is protected, and it isn't.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  18. #218
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    ?
    Which "they"?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  19. #219
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    It comes down that way, yes, but the point is that whether one is a member of something by choice or not is already irrelevant for rights being protected. Those two sorts of classes are already treated as one.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  20. #220
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Quote Originally Posted by RazorzEdge88 View Post
    It's not irrelevant.

    Equal protection gives more consideration to immutable characteristics, whereas the establishment clause is targeted at religion specifically.
    And that's irrelevant -- current law treats them the same: "race, religion, color, or creed" has been enshrined as the "can't discriminate" phrase for a long time now. In terms of protection, they're equal.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  21. #221
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Illinois Gov. Signs Historic Civil Unions Law


    http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011...nois.html?_r=1

    Thank goodness the definition of marriage does change over time. Women were originally thought of as property and marriage was originally about an exchange of property.

    "When you can't hide, discrimination falls." David Boies

  22. #222
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    It comes down that way, yes, but the point is that whether one is a member of something by choice or not is already irrelevant for rights being protected. Those two sorts of classes are already treated as one.
    Kulindahr, surely you must know about the different levels of scrutiny with regard to the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment? If not I'll be glad to lay it out for you or you can look it up in Wikipedia...

    But to summarize, all groups are not equal according to SCOTUS. Gender equality is less protected than racial equality, and as yet sexual orientation isn't even on the (federal) map.

  23. #223
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfSlobone View Post
    Kulindahr, surely you must know about the different levels of scrutiny with regard to the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment? If not I'll be glad to lay it out for you or you can look it up in Wikipedia...

    But to summarize, all groups are not equal according to SCOTUS. Gender equality is less protected than racial equality, and as yet sexual orientation isn't even on the (federal) map.
    So you think arguing that being gay is a choice is a strong position?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  24. #224
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Quote Originally Posted by RazorzEdge88 View Post
    Nobody's saying that.

    You're being awfully impervious to facts here.

    Go study the Perry case a little better and understand the different levels of scrutiny and why immutability and place in society makes a difference.
    I'm not interested in that. I'm only saying that federal law puts them all on the same level in all the anti-discrimination wording. If they're going to put one item in there that's plainly a choice, then something being a choice is not an argument against it being protected. And if someone wants to claim that some tiny percentage of gays have "changed", it can be pointed on that gender isn't unchangeable, either.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  25. #225
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Iowa House passes constitutional ban on same-sex marriage

    "In order to become law, the amendment must now pass in the Democratic-controlled Iowa Senate, where Majority Leader Mike Gronstal, a Council Bluffs Democrat, has vowed to block it. If it succeeds there, it must be passed by both the House and Senate again in 2013 before it can be placed on the ballot."

    http://iowaindependent.com/51790/iow...e-sex-marriage

    Thank goodness the definition of marriage does change over time. Women were originally thought of as property and marriage was originally about an exchange of property.

    "When you can't hide, discrimination falls." David Boies

  26. #226
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Barbarians

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  27. #227

    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    I suggest everyone call Mike Gronstal and thank him for his courage and leadership.

  28. #228
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    So you think arguing that being gay is a choice is a strong position?
    Huh? Where did you get that from what I said? You said, current law treats all groups the same, and I just pointed out that that's very far from being the truth. Don't matter what any of us thinks the law should be.

  29. #229
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfSlobone View Post
    Huh? Where did you get that from what I said? You said, current law treats all groups the same, and I just pointed out that that's very far from being the truth. Don't matter what any of us thinks the law should be.
    Right at the moment, I have no idea.

    But the law does make a whole string of things equal, including at least one that's a matter of choice. So the argument that it's a choice holds no water.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  30. #230

    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Gays are a federally recognized class though, under the hate crimes laws extended under the Matthew Shepard Act.

  31. #231
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Quote Originally Posted by scream4ever View Post
    Gays are a federally recognized class though, under the hate crimes laws extended under the Matthew Shepard Act.
    Yes -- and listed exactly on par with "race, color, and creed" -- both chosen and not-chosen classes.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  32. #232
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Hmm, I guess the problem is we're talking about a number of different things at the same time.

    My point was that as far as the Supreme Court is concerned, there's never been a general principle that the equal protection clause applies to any group that might be discriminated against. They've gradually added groups, one by one over the years. But even within this principle, different groups are afforded different levels of protection, or scrutiny. And LGBT's at the moment are not protected in any way. State courts and other legislation may use different criteria.

    Even Lawrence v. Texas was decided on the basis of the due process clause, not the equal protection clause. And Kennedy specifically said that nothing in the ruling should be interpreted to require the federal government to give legal recognition to gay relationships.

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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    South Dakota: Name change creates big fuss


    http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs...=2011102020321

    Thank goodness the definition of marriage does change over time. Women were originally thought of as property and marriage was originally about an exchange of property.

    "When you can't hide, discrimination falls." David Boies

  34. #234
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    A speech given at Iowa House Committee this week:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSQQK2Vuf9Q&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSQQK2Vuf9Q&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

    ...the effort to allow a public vote on a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage is dead in the Iowa Legislature this session.
    http://www.desmoinesregister.com/art...text|Frontpage

  35. #235
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    ^ Run him for the legislature.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  36. #236
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Send to your straight Maryland friends
    - Pop The Question
    http://actions.friendfactor.org/o/85...action_KEY=184

    Thank goodness the definition of marriage does change over time. Women were originally thought of as property and marriage was originally about an exchange of property.

    "When you can't hide, discrimination falls." David Boies

  37. #237
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Maryland - Some Christians Give OK To Same-Sex Marriage Bill



    http://www.wbaltv.com/r/26732666/detail.html

    Thank goodness the definition of marriage does change over time. Women were originally thought of as property and marriage was originally about an exchange of property.

    "When you can't hide, discrimination falls." David Boies

  38. #238
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    ^ Awesome.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  39. #239
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Response to NOM Rhode Island Ad

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAzQEQ87ynk&feature=feedu[/ame]

    Thank goodness the definition of marriage does change over time. Women were originally thought of as property and marriage was originally about an exchange of property.

    "When you can't hide, discrimination falls." David Boies

  40. #240
    JUB Addict Ninja108's Avatar
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Zach Wahls has more courage in his entire body than those bigots do between them.

  41. #241
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    ;........................................

    Thank goodness the definition of marriage does change over time. Women were originally thought of as property and marriage was originally about an exchange of property.

    "When you can't hide, discrimination falls." David Boies

  42. #242
    Wildly Inappropriate SonOfSlobone's Avatar
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Quote Originally Posted by metta View Post
    ;........................................
    Time for a bump?

  43. #243

    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    It comes down that way, yes, but the point is that whether one is a member of something by choice or not is already irrelevant for rights being protected. Those two sorts of classes are already treated as one.
    In the US, immutability grants stronger protection to certain groups that qualify. Immutability is not the only criterion, but it's a major one. For example, any law that mentions race has the burden of meeting additional standards for it be upheld. See:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspect_classification
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_scrutiny

  44. #244
    JUB Addict hotatlboi's Avatar
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Quote Originally Posted by andy12 View Post
    In the US, immutability grants stronger protection to certain groups that qualify. Immutability is not the only criterion, but it's a major one. For example, any law that mentions race has the burden of meeting additional standards for it be upheld. See:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspect_classification
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_scrutiny
    I believe Kuli's point was that immutability is not a prerequisite for that.

    As religion is typically classified with strict scrutiny and it is clearly a choice.

  45. #245
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    I love that this was written from someone at a Catholic High School

    PRO: Denying gay marriage is discrimination

    http://wvgazette.com/Entertainment/F...e/201102041194

    Thank goodness the definition of marriage does change over time. Women were originally thought of as property and marriage was originally about an exchange of property.

    "When you can't hide, discrimination falls." David Boies

  46. #246
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    MD: Undeclared lawmakers to decide fate of gay marriage

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...,6090252.story

    Thank goodness the definition of marriage does change over time. Women were originally thought of as property and marriage was originally about an exchange of property.

    "When you can't hide, discrimination falls." David Boies

  47. #247
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPza1JS5L7w[/ame]

    Thank goodness the definition of marriage does change over time. Women were originally thought of as property and marriage was originally about an exchange of property.

    "When you can't hide, discrimination falls." David Boies

  48. #248
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Miller says odds favor Senate passage of same-sex marriage bill in Maryland

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ann...or_senate.html

    Thank goodness the definition of marriage does change over time. Women were originally thought of as property and marriage was originally about an exchange of property.

    "When you can't hide, discrimination falls." David Boies

  49. #249
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State


    Thank goodness the definition of marriage does change over time. Women were originally thought of as property and marriage was originally about an exchange of property.

    "When you can't hide, discrimination falls." David Boies

  50. #250
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    Re: Gay Marriage Updates By State

    Comedian Joan Rivers Stars In Ad Campaign For Gay Marriage


    http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stori...r-gay-marriage

    Thank goodness the definition of marriage does change over time. Women were originally thought of as property and marriage was originally about an exchange of property.

    "When you can't hide, discrimination falls." David Boies

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