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Thread: Glee! [merged]

  1. #1651
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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by loki81 View Post
    I've never met him, so for all I know he's the nicest person in the world, but I get a douchebag vibe when I see pictures of him from the red carpet line or whatever.

    the character is just annoying and an obvious wish fulfillment fantasy on the part of Ryan Murphy.
    He is generally is described as "major dork", goofy and actually kinda humble.


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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by the-sandman View Post
    dust off my Fleetwood Mac songs
    Something Will did not do. I almost had kittens when I saw how he was handling that old LP.
    I used to be very careful about fingerprints and dust on vinyl back then.
    Party in my ass...if you cum you're stayin' in

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    The Born This Way episode totally lacked direction and you could tell they wrote whatever they could just so they could sing the song. At first the show featured songs that had something to do with the episodes but now it seems like they just make an effort to do newer songs to be relevant and edgy, for example the techno song that says "Barbra Streisand" that they danced to at the mall. WTF did that have to do with anything?

    And this Rumors episode was...ok...it made a lot more sense than Born This Way.

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    ^In glee everything can be solved by singing... honestly if you can't accept that...

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    The Good: The songs were great. Brit's conversations with her cat were funny as hell. I hope they bring back "Fondue for Two". Kristen Chenowith was a knee-slapper as well.

    The Bad: Artie calling Brit stupid. Santana taking advantage and swooping in. Lack of lines or singing for Kurt and Mercedes. No momentum on the Karofsky storyline, aside from Satana's interview with Jewfro Boy.

    The Ugly: Sue's disguises. Now she's becoming a parody of herself.

  6. #1656
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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    I personally thought the Born this Way episode was not bad - I loved the message behind it, accepting yourself for who you are and how you were born. Kids and teenagers more so than ever need to be taught that and with Glee being such a popular show I am glad that they make an effort to embrace that message.

    I LOVED the Fleetwood Mac's songs - Rachel's version of "Go your own way" was actually not as bad as I thought it would be when she started singing it.

    For the future - I want to see more of Santana, really liking this lesbian storyline going for her!

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueLantern View Post
    ^In glee everything can be solved by singing... honestly if you can't accept that...
    I never said the opposite...What I meant was that it feels like the writers don't really have a clear direction of were they want to go, and they just write each episode at a time and change storylines depending on what songs they want to sing when it should be the other way around.

    The Born This Way episode seemed rushed and just written around the song when it should be the other way around, they should just write the storyline and then choose the songs that fit it the most, you know what I mean? I felt that episode they were like "Ok so the Gaga song is huge right now so let's do an episode about that, oh and let's feature the Barbra Streisand techno song as well, just because it's really popular at the clubs and we need to grab the audience".

    I don't really have a clue about how the production of each episode is done I'm just guessing based on what I see on each episode and how some things don't make sense.

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by innocentbychoice View Post
    I never said the opposite...What I meant was that it feels like the writers don't really have a clear direction of were they want to go, and they just write each episode at a time and change storylines depending on what songs they want to sing when it should be the other way around.

    The Born This Way episode seemed rushed and just written around the song when it should be the other way around, they should just write the storyline and then choose the songs that fit it the most, you know what I mean? I felt that episode they were like "Ok so the Gaga song is huge right now so let's do an episode about that, oh and let's feature the Barbra Streisand techno song as well, just because it's really popular at the clubs and we need to grab the audience".

    I don't really have a clue about how the production of each episode is done I'm just guessing based on what I see on each episode and how some things don't make sense.
    Oh, I understand what you mean, honestly, I think that the writters never thought that the show was going to be sucessful and go beyond the first 13 episodes.

    Episode 13 is when I felt that the show "picked", simple because, they wrote it to be the potential-end.

    Ever since they seem lost, and not only lost, but they are obviously changing things as they go, remember how Sam was suppose to be Kurt's boyfriend?

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueLantern View Post
    Oh, I understand what you mean, honestly, I think that the writters never thought that the show was going to be sucessful and go beyond the first 13 episodes.

    Episode 13 is when I felt that the show "picked", simple because, they wrote it to be the potential-end.

    Ever since they seem lost, and not only lost, but they are obviously changing things as they go, remember how Sam was suppose to be Kurt's boyfriend?
    There are 2 possibilities on the Sam thing:

    1) He WAS supposed to be Kurt's boyfriend, but someone leaked it and the writers changed it and added Blaine at the last minute.

    OR

    2) The writers deliberately "leaked" info on Sam being the boyfriend, just to throw people off from Blaine.

    Either way, I'm glad Blaine ended up becoming Kurt's BF. Those two have fantastic chemistry and sing great together. Kurt and Trouty Mouth don't have that, and the relationship would have felt forced. Besides, it would have been too obvious to pair up a gay dude with a young Brad Pitt look-a-like.

  10. #1660
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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    ^^^ more 2 I think- they've been deliberatley leaking something every week to get press, etc

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by FuryOfFirestorm View Post
    There are 2 possibilities on the Sam thing:

    1) He WAS supposed to be Kurt's boyfriend, but someone leaked it and the writers changed it and added Blaine at the last minute.

    OR

    2) The writers deliberately "leaked" info on Sam being the boyfriend, just to throw people off from Blaine.

    Either way, I'm glad Blaine ended up becoming Kurt's BF. Those two have fantastic chemistry and sing great together. Kurt and Trouty Mouth don't have that, and the relationship would have felt forced. Besides, it would have been too obvious to pair up a gay dude with a young Brad Pitt look-a-like.
    I am glad that Darren Criss got the one to play a gay dude and kiss Chris Colfer

    Either way, I don't believe enough in the writters to think that they are clever enough to leak different rumours like that. I like the ******... but I really don't have that much faith in it =P

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueLantern View Post
    Either way, I don't believe enough in the writters to think that they are clever enough to leak different rumours like that. I like the ******... but I really don't have that much faith in it =P
    IMO, the writers will be the demise of the show if they can't pull it together. They really need to come up with more coherent plot lines TOGETHER instead having one writer per episode.

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    IMO, the writers will be the demise of the show if they can't pull it together. They really need to come up with more coherent plot lines TOGETHER instead having one writer per episode.
    You totally deserve a cheezburger for this words of wisdom.

  14. #1664

    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Just listened to Lea's new solo on Glee and i really like it. Not heard the original but i plan to. Its called Jar Of Hearts.

  15. #1665

    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    IMO, the writers will be the demise of the show if they can't pull it together. They really need to come up with more coherent plot lines TOGETHER instead having one writer per episode.
    Off-topic: If I remember correctly, I think the show Heroes had the same situation where only one write contributes to a whole episode. That show went down the drain rather quickly. I agree with maxpower9. Let's just hope they realize this
    Quote Originally Posted by Saybrooke View Post
    I was at the gym once, and this woman was on the elliptical next to me, making motorcycle noises.

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlmondMilk View Post
    Off-topic: If I remember correctly, I think the show Heroes had the same situation where only one write contributes to a whole episode. That show went down the drain rather quickly. I agree with maxpower9. Let's just hope they realize this
    Heroes had the problem with the writters strike, and had a very different.... nature of challenges, mostly, they could several things with easy use of powers, the only constraint was cash for effects. Glee is a much more mundane world, despite the tendency for elaborate musical numbers out of nowhere.

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by FuryOfFirestorm View Post
    There are 2 possibilities on the Sam thing:

    1) He WAS supposed to be Kurt's boyfriend, but someone leaked it and the writers changed it and added Blaine at the last minute.

    OR

    2) The writers deliberately "leaked" info on Sam being the boyfriend, just to throw people off from Blaine.

    Either way, I'm glad Blaine ended up becoming Kurt's BF. Those two have fantastic chemistry and sing great together. Kurt and Trouty Mouth don't have that, and the relationship would have felt forced. Besides, it would have been too obvious to pair up a gay dude with a young Brad Pitt look-a-like.
    Yeah I'll go with option 2. Funny thing is that all you said above about how Kurt and Sam wouldn't work is what I feel about Kurt and Blaine...I don't think they have any chemistry and for some reason I feel Blaine is really annoying.

    OH and I feel the show is suffering a bit of THE OC syndrome (remember how Marissa lived a lot more in 2 seasons than a regular person does in a lifetime?)...the stories are running fast and they're making so much changes so fast that when season 3 comes they won't have anything new to tell unless they change the cast entirely.

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by innocentbychoice View Post
    Yeah I'll go with option 2. Funny thing is that all you said above about how Kurt and Sam wouldn't work is what I feel about Kurt and Blaine...I don't think they have any chemistry and for some reason I feel Blaine is really annoying.

    OH and I feel the show is suffering a bit of THE OC syndrome (remember how Marissa lived a lot more in 2 seasons than a regular person does in a lifetime?)...the stories are running fast and they're making so much changes so fast that when season 3 comes they won't have anything new to tell unless they change the cast entirely.
    honestly, I am the opposite, or sort of, I mean, I feel that the storyles are jumpy before Born This Way there are people wondering that Kurt might stay there forever, or at least wondering how in hell he would want to leave the place. There was little build up or development.

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by innocentbychoice View Post
    Yeah I'll go with option 2. Funny thing is that all you said above about how Kurt and Sam wouldn't work is what I feel about Kurt and Blaine...I don't think they have any chemistry and for some reason I feel Blaine is really annoying.

    OH and I feel the show is suffering a bit of THE OC syndrome (remember how Marissa lived a lot more in 2 seasons than a regular person does in a lifetime?)...the stories are running fast and they're making so much changes so fast that when season 3 comes they won't have anything new to tell unless they change the cast entirely.
    That is actually the plan, according to Ryan Murphy. The kids will graduate at the end of Season 3, making way for a new cast of singing losers in Season 4. Hence, the shoehorning of 6 seasons worth of story in the space of 3.

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    The writing is extremely choppy in general...a Heroes comparison is accurate. Too many characters at once, not enough definition, too many different directions in the writing department.

    It's also funny that they were freshmen last year yet Quinn is apparently seventeen now and ready for prom queendom.
    blacksyringe

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    ^Too many characters is a understatement, and the worse thing: Half the characters that do get consistent attention usually get boring or weird storylines (I am looking at you Rachel)

    Quote Originally Posted by FuryOfFirestorm View Post
    That is actually the plan, according to Ryan Murphy. The kids will graduate at the end of Season 3, making way for a new cast of singing losers in Season 4. Hence, the shoehorning of 6 seasons worth of story in the space of 3.
    I heard this disconformed, though I don't know how they are going to make it.

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Heroes was a different story, it was written for 1 set of cast members only. The end of heroes 1 was meant to be the end of us knowing that group of people, and Season2 was meant to be a whole new cast and their whole story. NBC wanted to turn the actors into celebrities though and forced Tim Kring to keep them all on. The problem with this is the Heroes powers were SO overpowered, they weren't designed to be made for more than 1 season.

    You could blame NBC for this, but on the other hand it's a TV show and you should always be planning ahead "just in case", as it's not a movie.

    As for glee, yeah the show has gone a long way from the original first episode. The first episode WOWED me, I really wanted to watch the ****** The show was about a high school teacher, his faux pregnant wife, and him wanting to start the Glee club up properly.
    Now the show is about teaching us a moralistic lesson each time, and not with even a hint of subtlety at all. The lesson at the beginning of the season and the pilot was a "us vs the world" kind of thing, which is fun to watch the underdog rise up. Now it's like Beverly Hills 90210 (the classic one with Shannen Doherty) but with songs to sing.

    By no means does this mean I'll stop watching the show as it's still light fluff entertainment but it's definitely taken a different direction.

    Some critics say they were glad that both pregnancy storylines were gone as it means they don't need to look for "shock storyline" to keep the viewers enticed and let it stand on it's own two feet. I think they should return to having those storylines in and removing the stupid ones like how the hambeast wanted to be prom queen.

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    [QUOTE=MarquisOrias;7105795]Heroes was a different story, it was written for 1 set of cast members only. The end of heroes 1 was meant to be the end of us knowing that group of people, and Season2 was meant to be a whole new cast and their whole story. NBC wanted to turn the actors into celebrities though and forced Tim Kring to keep them all on. The problem with this is the Heroes powers were SO overpowered, they weren't designed to be made for more than 1 season.
    QUOTE]

    It's funny, because I see that happening with Glee when season three comes to an end. They'll want to keep most of the cast.
    blacksyringe

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by -Callum- View Post
    The writing is extremely choppy in general...Too many characters at once, not enough definition, too many different directions in the writing department.
    You nailed it. Perfect description.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarquisOrias View Post
    Some critics say they were glad that both pregnancy storylines were gone as it means they don't need to look for "shock storyline" to keep the viewers enticed and let it stand on it's own two feet. I think they should return to having those storylines in and removing the stupid ones like how the hambeast wanted to be prom queen.
    I think the first season was filled with too may baby stories (Will's wife faux pregnancy, Quinn's pregnancy and then Rachel's biological mom showing up) I felt it was too much and was glad that they got rid of all of it.

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Oh and am I they only one who hates Quinn right now? I can't stand her, she's such a cold frigid hypocrite bitch. And Dianna Agron is like the worst actress ever, no emotions whatsoever, I saw her in Burlesque and it was like seeing an older Quinn.

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    The Hate Group AFA Continues Attack On Glee

    The Hate Group AFA Continues Attack On Glee

    http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2011/05...continues.html

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    Re: The Hate Group AFA Continues Attack On Glee

    I would probobly be feeling a tad more militant if the show weren't so monumentaly shit. All I can really muster is....well, my usual, christians are retarded.

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    Re: The Hate Group AFA Continues Attack On Glee

    Just goes to show you how loyal the AFA is.

    NewsCorp gives them a whole channel (FAUX News) to express their views. But, do they remember that? No!!! You'd think they'd give FOX a pass on Glee.

  29. #1679
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    Re: The Hate Group AFA Continues Attack On Glee

    there are so many other things wrong with Glee that this is really making a mountain out of a molehill.

  30. #1680

    Re: The Hate Group AFA Continues Attack On Glee

    Guess I'm in the minority - I love the show!

  31. #1681
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    Re: The Hate Group AFA Continues Attack On Glee

    Quote Originally Posted by IowaGuy View Post
    Guess I'm in the minority - I love the show!
    You're not the only one.

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by innocentbychoice View Post
    Oh and am I they only one who hates Quinn right now? I can't stand her, she's such a cold frigid hypocrite bitch. And Dianna Agron is like the worst actress ever, no emotions whatsoever, I saw her in Burlesque and it was like seeing an older Quinn.
    Glee: Where character development comes to die.

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    Re: The Hate Group AFA Continues Attack On Glee

    The show makes me smile each week and is certainly not intellectually challenging; but then that's not why I watch. It has had a couple of hard hitting episodes but lately has been a little more far fetched.

    If it continued its current track, I probably wouldn't remember to watch...

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueLantern View Post
    Glee: Where character development comes to die.
    Ryan Murphy is the expert on static character development. He should start a workshop on it and tell other writers how to do it.

    This night's episode was okay but the voice in the back of my head is telling me to stop watching this horrible ****** Even with the spoiler about prom queen/king, the plot is just so fucked up, I swear the writers are just stealing bits of fanfic and coalesced them into a somewhat coherent episode. I'm gay (and 25) and I didn't even know Tribeca was a "gay/lesbian capital" in NYC. Why the fuck would a teen girl in the midwest know that? I know I shouldn't talking about "realism" with this show but the dialogue is stilted to the point where even a conflict is monotone. Winos on the stoop have more emotion than this cast. Don't even get me started about the Quinn-Rachel conflict. Quinn bitch slaps Rachel and she hands Quinn a paper towel to wipe her tears? [Looks at the first line that I wrote] Makes perfect since to Murphy.

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    How horrible was "Rolling In the Deep"...that was bad...and Jonathan Groff said shit...lol


    So i'm surprised the death wasn't teased for next week...TVLine has been saying it happens in the 2nd to last episode...which I believe is the next episode. But Ausiello denied tonight that it was a member of New Directions...which leaves who? Sue, Emma, Ex-Mrs. Schue...are there any other regular females in the cast?


    and on another note...I've been rewatching the first season of "Popular" this week...for those that don't know or don't remember, this was Ryan Murphy's first show back in 1999. He's basically just re-hashing storylines from that show for Glee, but he did it SO much better on "Popular"

  36. #1686
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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    I couldn't take all the Blurt tonight.

    I mean, seriously enough already... Mercedes and Tina have each had like 1 song all season and it feels like Blaine gets 5 every episode. and he's not even a regular yet?

    I'm pretty sure Ryan Murphy is crushing on him.

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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    ^ Yeah, what a horrible Mary Sue thing Murphy has going. Blaine just sweeps in like a Golden Age leading man after Karofsky walks off. *yawn* Toss in some drama, make Kurt stand there looking horribly awkward. These little tweaks drive me insane because they leave zero character development and allow the two predominant gay kids to be god-like and untouchable.

    It's almost as if he's vicariously reliving high school through this ****** It's a tiring charade. Anyone that's taken a writing class knows decent character development is written from flaws - people want to see flawed people.
    blacksyringe

  38. #1688

    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Does anyone believe that the prom king/queen results would be a surprise to the principal? First of all, wouldn't he be involved in counting the votes? And even if he wasn't, wouldn't whoever did count the votes mention quietly that this prank had occurred, and then throw away the votes for Kurt?

    BTW, was the actor who published the spoiler visible in the episode?

  39. #1689

    Re: Glee! [merged]

    I really loved Rolling In the Deep by Lea and Jonathan...

  40. #1690
    JUB Addict Ohiospeedo's Avatar
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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Hmmm. I was not crazy about this episode. I thought all of the song choices were bad. And once again, Artie got a solo. He is not a good singer I think. Sounds weird and looks weird singing.

  41. #1691
    aagold76
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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    It was OK....How exactly does half the Glee Club get nominated for Prom King and Queen? Just 2 episodes ago, they couldn't sell more than 6 tickets to their concert- their own parents didn't even come, and now their half the court???? I was afraid when I first heard (weeks ago) that Kurt was Prom Queen- knowing the sorry ass writers it would be horrible, but it was handled fairly well....and Mercedes/Rachel/Sam- prom on a budget.....Rach and Sam, maybe- but Mercedes dress was not a budget...

  42. #1692
    JUB Addict innocentbychoice's Avatar
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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    I liked Prom Queen, but again there's a lot of things on the show that are so unreal, almost cartoonish. No school principal would've read out loud the name of a gay guy for prom queen, specially cuz it was such an obvious and cruel joke, if the principal did that they would be participating in the joke and letting students do whatever they want, nor would a principal let both guys have their first dance.

    Sue Sylvester keeps gettin more cartoonish as well each time.

    But I did like the Friday and Dancing Queen performances. And each time I think more and more that Artie is really cool, just like Britanny and Santana.

  43. #1693
    JUB Addict innocentbychoice's Avatar
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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by bostonboy20 View Post
    So i'm surprised the death wasn't teased for next week...TVLine has been saying it happens in the 2nd to last episode...which I believe is the next episode. But Ausiello denied tonight that it was a member of New Directions...which leaves who? Sue, Emma, Ex-Mrs. Schue...are there any other regular females in the cast?
    It will probably be Will's wife, nobody cares about that bitch I can't even remember her name.

    and on another note...I've been rewatching the first season of "Popular" this week...for those that don't know or don't remember, this was Ryan Murphy's first show back in 1999. He's basically just re-hashing storylines from that show for Glee, but he did it SO much better on "Popular"
    I don't remember anything specific about that show but I do remember I liked it a lot.

    Oh and do you guys know that the same prom queen storyline happened to Betty's gay nephew in Ugly Betty?

    Quote Originally Posted by loki81 View Post
    I couldn't take all the Blurt tonight.

    I mean, seriously enough already... Mercedes and Tina have each had like 1 song all season and it feels like Blaine gets 5 every episode. and he's not even a regular yet?
    Yeah I keep repeating Blaine is so annoying. And this last episode I thought he acted "gayer" than before. I felt like writers or someone was instructing him to use a "gayer" body language; did you see how he was seated when he was in Kurt's couch next to Finn? He looked very effeminate, while Finn was a lot more macho with his legs spread drinking beer. It was a bit too obvious to me.

  44. #1694
    aagold76
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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    ^^^^ Noticed the body language, too....it could just be a straight actor's take on playing up the gay

  45. #1695
    Hope? BlueLantern's Avatar
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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by innocentbychoice View Post
    It will probably be Will's wife, nobody cares about that bitch I can't even remember her name.
    The rumours say that it will be a female character that is "dear" to the fans, and likely from the school (but not from the glee club). The casting of Becky Jackson mom's has led people to think that it might be Becky or Sue's sister Jean.

    Quote Originally Posted by innocentbychoice View Post
    Yeah I keep repeating Blaine is so annoying. And this last episode I thought he acted "gayer" than before. I felt like writers or someone was instructing him to use a "gayer" body language; did you see how he was seated when he was in Kurt's couch next to Finn? He looked very effeminate, while Finn was a lot more macho with his legs spread drinking beer. It was a bit too obvious to me.
    I noticed it too... if you want a explanation... maybe he is loosing up because he was in a friendly enviroment?

    I was spoiled, I don't know how much that made me react or not to the actual scene, I did want to Kurt though.

  46. #1696
    JUB Addict innocentbychoice's Avatar
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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by aagold76 View Post
    ^^^^ Noticed the body language, too....it could just be a straight actor's take on playing up the gay
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueLantern View Post


    I noticed it too... if you want a explanation... maybe he is loosing up because he was in a friendly enviroment?
    I don't know, either way it was too obvious and stereotypical and he didn't act like that before. Let Kurt be the feminine one.

  47. #1697

    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Say what you want - but the last 15 minutes of that episode had me in tears bigtime - and almost sobbing. There is something about the Kurt/Blaine/Karofsky storyline that just really hits me. Call it a childhood experience, or a parallel to people I've had in my life at that age, but I identify with all those emotions and that made the episode great to me.

    We all get varying mileage out of the story arcs - just because we may not identify with some, doesn't mean they aren't doing a good job.

  48. #1698

    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Davelandia I'm totally with you. And for all the inconsistent writing and such, there's something wonderful about having a romantic gay couple on TV in Blaine and Kurt. They're always singing to each other and supporting each other and generally just being sweet and adorable. That for me makes up for all the rest of the bullshit.

  49. #1699
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    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Quote Originally Posted by Davelandia View Post
    Say what you want - but the last 15 minutes of that episode had me in tears bigtime - and almost sobbing. There is something about the Kurt/Blaine/Karofsky storyline that just really hits me. Call it a childhood experience, or a parallel to people I've had in my life at that age, but I identify with all those emotions and that made the episode great to me.

    We all get varying mileage out of the story arcs - just because we may not identify with some, doesn't mean they aren't doing a good job.
    Yeah I'm with you here. The Karofsky storyline especially. I am in his shoes now, I am currently closeted and I'd love to be out but it's just very hard to so right now and I end up being negative towards others and self destructive instead. Karofsky storylines are my escape and fantasy parallel.

  50. #1700
    aagold76
    Guest

    Re: Glee! [merged]

    Marquis...I hope when you do come out, you make an effort to apologize to those you're negative to...I still HATE the guys who bullied me in HS- basically wouldn't even grimmace if I found out they died in a ditch yesterday....

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