Muscle building formulas

[socal21]

anybody know of a good healthy one they might recomend?

[sc_jock2004]

Protien, Protien, and more Protien... Just watch your diet... you can try supplements, and there's plenty out there... but you can accomplish the same thing by just watching your diet and lifting hard. Get a lifting plan, and stick to it. Best of luck bro!

[KaraBulut]

anybody know of a good healthy one they might recomend?

Depends on what your overall goals are. What are your current stats and what are your target goals?

[eleMental]

i've done a lot of reading regarding supplements and muscle building and here are my thoughts on the subject:

1. supplemental protein - most likely unnecessary
Unless you are a strict vegetarian or consuming a very low calorie diet you are probably getting more than enough protein in your diet to sustain muscle building with a proper weightlifting routine. For example, a 150lb guy of average build needs only about 50-60g of protein per day (this is the RDA). But many studies have shown that most Americans consume well over 100g of protein a day. So again, you're likely already getting enough. Also, many of the protein powders on the market derive a great deal of their amino acids from the milk you have to add to make the drink! This is just something to be aware of before you run out and buy some overly-priced MegaMan powder or whatever.

All that being said, unless you have kidney problems the protein powder is probably pretty safe (albeit useless).

2. creatine - jury's still out
Creatine is a natural substance that recycles ATP (which your muscles use for energy). By supplementing it, you could be providing your muscles with "more" energy to workout harder in the gym (at least, this is the theory thus far). Does it work? A lot of studies have shown that it probably does but NOT IN THE WAY MANY PEOPLE THINK! Creatine doesn't build muscle!!!! It allows you to work harder in the gym by increasing the energy supply to your muscles (muscles gotta contract to get bigger and they need energy to do this). So in short, if creatine is going to make a difference, it will only happen if you work harder in the gym. Also, drink a lot of water because it can cause GI and muscle cramps. Is it safe? Again, not entirely sure. On the short term it seems to be perfectly safe but there haven't been any long term studies conducted yet.

3. DHEA - leave it alone
Available as an over the counter supplement, DHEA is a hormone. In short, it may show some benefit in older men (over 40 might start to see some benefits because their natural DHEA levels start decreasing). But here are some of the possible (and nasty) side effects: change in hair growth, enlarged prostate, acne. In short: avoid it.


I won't drag this out anymore. But in short, your best bet is to eat a healthy, well-balanced diet that includes protein, drink a lot of water, get adequate sleep every night, and push yourself HARD in the gym.

Hope this is helpful to anyone!

[UnderBiCover]

Unless you are a strict vegetarian or consuming a very low calorie diet you are probably getting more than enough protein in your diet to sustain muscle building with a proper weightlifting routine. For example, a 150lb guy of average build needs only about 50-60g of protein per day (this is the RDA). But many studies have shown that most Americans consume well over 100g of protein a day. So again, you're likely already getting enough.

I respectfully disagree - I consume an average of 285g protein a day - most serious lifters I know consume at least 200

I also strongly advise against creatine

I would also add that the OP said nothing about his workout routine so it's really hard to give him any kind of detailed answer - his profile says he's of average build so it doesn't sound like he's doing much unless he's modest - if he's not working out hard then any kind of formula is a waste of time & $

[eleMental]

I respectfully disagree - I consume an average of 285g protein a day - most serious lifters I know consume at least 200

ok but that's not really proof you need to consume that much protein. you could just be an excellent weightlifter!

[UnderBiCover]

ok but that's not really proof you need to consume that much protein. you could just be an excellent weightlifter!

I know what I need & have seen what happens when I don't consume enough - my sports MD told me with my regimen to consume at least 2.5 grams protein per kilogram bodyweight per day

certainly not all people need to consume at my level but if he has any kind of serious program I think 50-100 will be way too low unless he's tiny - he will have insufficient strength & endurance & see little to no results - he wants to build muscle, 50-100 a day won't do that IMHO

if he's looking for a magic formula out of a jar in place of hard work & sweat it doesn't exist

[KaraBulut]

For example, a 150lb guy of average build needs only about 50-60g of protein per day (this is the RDA). But many studies have shown that most Americans consume well over 100g of protein a day. So again, you're likely already getting enough. Also, many of the protein powders on the market derive a great deal of their amino acids from the milk you have to add to make the drink!

my sports MD told me with my regimen to consume at least 2.5 grams protein per kilogram bodyweight per day...I think 50-100 will be way too low unless he's tiny...he wants to build muscle, 50-100 a day won't do that IMHO

The minimum recommended daily allowance is 0.8gm/kg. This is enough to maintain muscle in the average person with the average level of activity.

0.8gm/kg not enough to build muscle if you're pursuing an aggressive workout program. On the other hand, 2.5gm/kg is a lot though for someone just starting out, so OP will have to find a midpoint that works for his body and level of exertion.

A lot of people end up supplementing protein because eating chicken breasts and eggs all day gets really old (and expensive). There's a limited amount of protein that can be absorbed in a single meal, so protein intake needs to be dessiminated through the day.

if he's looking for a magic formula out of a jar in place of hard work & sweat it doesn't exist

I absolutely agree. Supplements just turn to fat or end up in the toilet (literally) if you aren't doing the exercise necessary to build muscle.

[socal21]

well my stats are i'm 5'10-5'11 180lbs. but used to weigh 270lbs. i do work out,but not crazy but do need to tone and build up more muscle,so i've heard muscle milk or eas are good ones,but i don't realy know much about them.

[UnderBiCover]

well my stats are i'm 5'10-5'11 180lbs. but used to weigh 270lbs. i do work out,but not crazy but do need to tone and build up more muscle,so i've heard muscle milk or eas are good ones,but i don't realy know much about them.

when you say "I do work out but not crazy" what do you mean? how many days a week? how many days a week do you lift? how many days a week do you do cardio? how would you describe your lifting routine, geared more toward mass or strength?

do you know what your bodyfat % is now? if you dropped from 270 it sounds like you lost a lot of bodyfat but you still might have a higher % than you realize

IMHO Muscle Milk is really more about convenience, it doesn't offer anything unique compared to many other formulas - it's when you ingest them that'll make a difference - if you workout in the early morning but have the Muscle Milk at night it will do a lot less than if you drink it right after your workout

supplements/formulas are sort of like super hightest gasoline - if you have a high performance engine then the hightest will help, but if you burn it in a 70 hp engine you're sort of wasting your time & money - if you have a moderate workout 2-3 times a week then I don't think you'll really see any kind of results from supplements/formulas

as KaraBulut said you have to be careful it doesn't add fat - if you were once 270 that's something to consider

[KaraBulut]

supplements/formulas are sort of like super hightest gasoline - if you have a high performance engine then the hightest will help, but if you burn it in a 70 hp engine you're sort of wasting your time & money - if you have a moderate workout 2-3 times a week then I don't think you'll really see any kind of results from supplements/formulas

That's a good analogy.

as KaraBulut said you have to be careful it doesn't add fat - if you were once 270 that's something to consider

MuscleMilk is a good protein rich supplement but it also has fat in it. That's what makes it so creamy and makes it taste good. If you've ever eaten a whey protein bar- it's like eating drywall- dry, bland and difficult to swallow. Fat isn't bad for you- you do need fat in your diet and fat in your diet doesn't get stored as fat on your body- but it's a big source of extra calories.

Going from 270# to 180# required a lot of work. This would be a good time to work with a nutritionist on a maintenance diet. Since you're contemplating surgery, you should first work on cardio-fitness and core strength. You will also want to work on strengthening muscles and connective tissue in your upper body since heavy guys tend to have strong leg and butt muscles but often need to work on balancing their upper body to their lower body.

One word of caution that we haven't mentioned about codeerror and BlackHoleSun's threads- both of these guys are naturally lean and have to really work hard and eat a lot of extra calories and protein to add weight. Guys who are mesomorphs or who have a tendency to build fat stores will need a different diet plan.

Once you get on a good maintenance diet and you work on core strength, then add in protein supplements along with upping your reps and adding a variety of exercises. You want to be very careful adding supplements and extra calories until you really start an aggressive program. If you can afford it, a trainer will really help you get an objective view of your problem areas on your body and will help you do the right exercises to address those areas.

[socal21]

That's a good analogy.




MuscleMilk is a good protein rich supplement but it also has fat in it. That's what makes it so creamy and makes it taste good. If you've ever eaten a whey protein bar- it's like eating drywall- dry, bland and difficult to swallow. Fat isn't bad for you- you do need fat in your diet and fat in your diet doesn't get stored as fat on your body- but it's a big source of extra calories.

Going from 270# to 180# required a lot of work. This would be a good time to work with a nutritionist on a maintenance diet. Since you're contemplating surgery, you should first work on cardio-fitness and core strength. You will also want to work on strengthening muscles and connective tissue in your upper body since heavy guys tend to have strong leg and butt muscles but often need to work on balancing their upper body to their lower body.

One word of caution that we haven't mentioned about codeerror and BlackHoleSun's threads- both of these guys are naturally lean and have to really work hard and eat a lot of extra calories and protein to add weight. Guys who are mesomorphs or who have a tendency to build fat stores will need a different diet plan.

Once you get on a good maintenance diet and you work on core strength, then add in protein supplements along with upping your reps and adding a variety of exercises. You want to be very careful adding supplements and extra calories until you really start an aggressive program. If you can afford it, a trainer will really help you get an objective view of your problem areas on your body and will help you do the right exercises to address those areas.

Well,i think i have a pretty good diet. I have my 3 main meals and about 2 sometimes 3 snacks in between. As for exercise i do jog/run 3 miles everyday,i used to workout 3 times a week when i had a trainer,but i only had him for about two monthes,and he's really expensive to hire him again...so my main sourse of exercise is cardio...would it still be ok to take anything?

[Telstra]

Protien, Protien, and more Protien... Just watch your diet... you can try supplements, and there's plenty out there... but you can accomplish the same thing by just watching your diet and lifting hard. Get a lifting plan, and stick to it. Best of luck bro!

yep protein. I think supplements are of No benefits.

[KaraBulut]

Well,i think i have a pretty good diet. I have my 3 main meals and about 2 sometimes 3 snacks in between. As for exercise i do jog/run 3 miles everyday,

That's a good aerobic level. Unless you live in an area with mountains or hills, you might want to add treadmill with a variable setting.

i used to workout 3 times a week when i had a trainer,but i only had him for about two monthes,and he's really expensive to hire him again...

That's the way you should do it. Your trainer shouldn't be your workout partner unless you're training for a contest or training for an athletic event like a triathalon. Your trainer should get you on a program to a goal and then you should do that routine on your own. When you want a new challenge, then re-engage with your trainer.

so my main sourse of exercise is cardio...would it still be ok to take anything?

No, you need protein supplementation only if you're doing very intensive weight lifting. Cardio (aerobic exercise) doesn't consume protein, it consumes carbs (either in the form of blood glucose or stored glycogen) and eventually it consumes stored fat. Protein is used only as a last resort.

[rossignols]

I just finished taking a nutrition class that focused on athletic performance.
Thoughout the 4 month course, the main focus was that to build muscle properly, you need adequate amounts of all types of food groups including all of the essential fatty acids and vitamins and minerals.

Supplements, from what I was thought usually fall short.

My prof, who was a b******lder, suggested that someone who wanted to build muscle should buy skimmed milk powder and use that instead of a supplement (why?)
-Because its way cheaper
- Contains more essential nutrients
- Has just as much protein as the supplments would have
- Its NATURAL

Hope this helps

[Sultan]

MrBiUnderCover has giant arms so I'd take his word for it. lol

[Telstra]

MrBiUnderCover has giant arms so I'd take his word for it. lol

i knew you are into BiCover.
Would you take his load in your throat.

[Sultan]

I never take guys loads in my throats because I'm too scared of catching disease, so no.

[Telstra]

ok, just kidding sultan.

[UnderBiCover]

someone who wanted to build muscle should buy skimmed milk powder and use that instead of a supplement (why?)

you need to "boost" the milk - if you just mix it with water at regular strength, might as well just drink fresh skimmed milk

(it's also better using nonfat powered milk, not skim, cause then there's no fat at all)

the way you boost it is to mix it 4x or 5x with either water or nonfat milk - that way you have a drink with about 50g protein per 8oz serving - instead of mixing 1 teaspoon per cup as directions state you mix 4 or 5 teaspoons - but you need to do this in a blender or it'll be really lumpy

be forewarned tho it tastes sort of nasty this way - like runny unflavored yogurt

not all proteins are the same - milk contains casein protein but not whey protein, many perfer whey - that can be found in commercial protein mixes which are about the same price as skim milk if you buy in quantity & taste much better imho

[UnderBiCover]

that's the way you should do it. Your trainer shouldn't be your workout partner unless you're training for a contest or training for an athletic event like a triathalon. Your trainer should get you on a program to a goal and then you should do that routine on your own. When you want a new challenge, then re-engage with your trainer.

No, you need protein supplementation only if you're doing very intensive weight lifting. Cardio (aerobic exercise) doesn't consume protein, it consumes carbs (either in the form of blood glucose or stored glycogen) and eventually it consumes stored fat. Protein is used only as a last resort.

excellent advice from KaraBulu

[Sultan]

When I was working out, I'd mix my protein shakes with ice cream, milk and a banana and it tasted great.

[hothunk222]

I've been working out for a few weeks now! I can already see some results, my body changes week to week, really quick it's awesome! I'm kind of new to working out but I've been following some of the guides that they have online in the body building websites. I really like separating the muscle groups, working a different one each day. I'm really liking this! Anyways, what's a good protein formula to use? I'm thinking of buying myself a bucket.

[UnderBiCover]

Anyways, what's a good protein formula to use? I'm thinking of buying myself a bucket.

do you have any idea now what your daily protein intake is in terms of total grams?

[hothunk222]

do you have any idea now what your daily protein intake is in terms of total grams?

Not yet! I eat alot of meat, chicken, fish, tuna that kind of stuff so I'm getting plenty of protein from my normal diet. I guess I should start keeping a log of my daily intake. I'll do that this week!

[conroeguy]

I respectfully disagree - I consume an average of 285g protein a day - most serious lifters I know consume at least 200

I was wondering how many calories do you consume a day? Your getting 1140 calories just from the 285 g of protein, just curious. A lot of traditional hardcore ************ follow this type of diet and if it works for you and your happy with it, then no problem. But, I hate to see some guys at the gym using all this extra protein and wondering why they can't lose the gut or that last 12 - 15 lbs.

The Cooper Institute recommends .8 grams per pound of body weight for "highly active", ie navy seal during pt, individuals. I tend to agree.

For beginners it is important to understand that you don't store extra protein, it is "flushed" out or converted and stored as fat. In the end it is just excess calories that you are taking in. .6-.7 grams per pound is good enough for most active people .

I 'm a personal trainer for a police department and would never recommend 1-1.5 grams that is often seen in Muscle and Fiction Mags. Don't forget they are in the business of selling supplements. The only miracle supplement out there is the juice. With roids you could consume and utilize massive amounts of protein with no problem, but that is a whole nother box of worms.

just my 2cents

[UnderBiCover]

lots of good advice conroeguy

my daily diet macros are about: 2650 cals.,180 g. carbs, 75 g. fat --> I did not figure that myself a dietitian did it for me

I was wondering how many calories do you consume a day? Your getting 1140 calories just from the 285 g of protein, just curious. A lot of traditional hardcore ************ follow this type of diet and if it works for you and your happy with it, then no problem. But, I hate to see some guys at the gym using all this extra protein and wondering why they can't lose the gut or that last 12 - 15 lbs.

The Cooper Institute recommends .8 grams per pound of body weight for "highly active", ie navy seal during pt, individuals. I tend to agree.

For beginners it is important to understand that you don't store extra protein, it is "flushed" out or converted and stored as fat. In the end it is just excess calories that you are taking in. .6-.7 grams per pound is good enough for most active people .

I 'm a personal trainer for a police department and would never recommend 1-1.5 grams that is often seen in Muscle and Fiction Mags. Don't forget they are in the business of selling supplements. The only miracle supplement out there is the juice. With roids you could consume and utilize massive amounts of protein with no problem, but that is a whole nother box of worms.

just my 2cents

[Nephelauxetic]

My prof, who was a b******lder, suggested that someone who wanted to build muscle should buy skimmed milk powder and use that instead of a supplement (why?)
-Because its way cheaper
- Contains more essential nutrients
- Has just as much protein as the supplments would have
- Its NATURAL

All that lactose will create a massive insulin peak which one should avoid. Bad idea

[UnderBiCover]

what's a good protein formula to use?

ultimately you will probably want to test for yourself which ones you like - some guys get indigestion & bad gas from certain formulas while others do not

[D_Pipa]

try GOMAD

Gallon of milk a day.