Writing Tips & Story Help

[Autolycus]

I asked a question in the wrong thread so I'll reask it here.

How disruptive do English-speaking non-Americans find Americanisms in erotic fiction? For example, ass for arse, pants for trousers.

Would a publisher be better off publishing North American, UK, and perhaps Australian versions of the same story? Maybe it's possible to avoid most of these differences.

I read vast amounts of American fiction and have no problems over language, although I sometimes have to do a little research to find out what something like a 'poboy sandwich' is - I even managed to have one when in the States last summer!

Y'all not quite as foreign as you might think

[Críostóir]

Y'all not quite ain't as foreign as you might y'all think

Fixed that for you! Yes, I'm kidding.

[EasyRory]

I read vast amounts of American fiction and have no problems over language, although I sometimes have to do a little research to find out what something like a 'poboy sandwich' is - I even managed to have one when in the States last summer!

Y'all not quite as foreign as you might think

Even in the US, "po' boy" [poor boy's sandwich] is a regional term.

I have in mind another story set in the southern US, so in your honor I'll make sure the characters eat a po' boy or two.

[Críostóir]

Even in the US, "po' boy" [poor boy's sandwich] is a regional term.

I have in mind another story set in the southern US, so in your honor I'll make sure the characters eat a po' boy or two.

Just don't have them eat chitlins. That shit's disGUSting.

[Autolycus]

Just don't have them eat chitlins. That shit's disGUSting.

If you mean what we Brits call chitterlings - they're truly, truly scrumptious!

[Críostóir]

If you mean what we Brits call chitterlings - they're truly, truly scrumptious!

Ewww. The very thought. But you Brits eat all manner of things my mother would have sealed in two layers of plastic bag and put out at the curb.

Yes, chit'lin's. Typical Southern US shortening.

And you've earwormed me.

"Damn you!" he screamed at the indifferent heavens, as his biplane spiraled down, trailing acrid black smoke over the French countryside.

[EasyRory]

On the subject of writing, I have become a regular reader of www.dailywritingtips.com . It's a nice website that may be a little pendantic to some; but it lays out the accepted rules of grammar, syntax, punctuation, etc. in US and UK versions, when that matters, and also gives hints on when to break them.

[Autolycus]

Ewww. The very thought. But you Brits eat all manner of things my mother would have sealed in two layers of plastic bag and put out at the curb.

Yes, chit'lin's. Typical Southern US shortening.

And you've earwormed me.

"Damn you!" he screamed at the indifferent heavens, as his biplane spiraled down, trailing acrid black smoke over the French countryside.

Landing in the French countryside could mean that you would have to eat far more strange things than we Brits would even consider!

[Críostóir]

Landing in the French countryside could mean that you would have to eat far more strange things than we Brits would even consider!

That's why I'd crash the plane on purpose. Better that than listen to Dick Van Dyke singing...back in his drunk days.

[DonQuixote]

What an interesting literary discussion!

Chit'lin's aka chitterlings.

Auto, whatever could you be meaning vis a vis the palatte Francais?
Escargot?
Frogs Legs?
Truffles?
Moldy Cheese? (Bleu/Roquefort)

Is it the French or Brits that are into eel? Both?

How're the Haggas, and Bangers and Mash?

What constitutes a "Full English"
Eggs, Bacon/Sausage/Ham, Toast or Muffins?, Juice, Coffee/Tea?
I've seen the reference several times, I know it's a large breakfast, but i don't know the "traditional" English components.

[markdrew]

Great question! We should have more discussions like this. I'll answer and I hope lots of other writers will, too. But it also would be intersting to hear from readers. What responses do they agree with and disagree with and why?

My answer:

Skip the details. There must be something in all that mud you're trudging through that you think is important. Get right to it. Skip the dialogue. Skip the normal description. Skip whatever it takes.

I just took about two pages of a long, boring section and rewrote it to say something like . . .

We talked for almost two hours. I can hardly remember anything we said now except that when we were done I finally understood his point. He . . .

And then I made the central point in just a couple of lines of text instead of two pages.

If it's gotten boring for you, it is going to be boring for the reader. Skim, summarize, get to the point and move on.

I've written quite a few stories and that is the trick I use. Let's face it, if you are writing porn write porn. You've got to keep it interesting.

[EphGuy]

• First, you've got to use good grammar and a clear writing style. That allows the reader to concentrate on building a mental image rather than wasting their mind on trying to figure out what you're trying to say. Make the effort to use proper punctuation, capitalization, and spelling. Mistakes happen and a few are expected, but if you don't even try to follow the rules, you can't expect to be taken seriously and your sloppy style will only distract the reader.

I demur. I think sex is one topic where it behooves one to toss Strunk and White out the window. Passion is what a neuropsychiatrist would call a 'pre-frontal' state and by definition does not recommends itself to linear thought. I find that rules of good grammar, capitalization, punctuation, etc, get in they way of the flow of the action. Periods are as obtrusive as the awkward cuts between positions in poorly filmed porn. Great sex is like a run-on sentence. Attempting to capture the concupiscent moment may have been the inspiration behind the modernist movement. Episode 18: Penelope (a.k.a. Molly Bloom's monologue). Need I say more?

• Try to use senses. Smell, for example, is very effective at hooking the reader. The phrase "The dark, moldy cellar" is much less effective than "The dark cellar reeked of mold." Instead of "The loud music hurt his ears" try "His ears ached as the music's beat hammered at them."

Better still go for synesthesia.

This post seems to be more about writing in general. The first step in all writing is writing. Just get something down. Brainstorm. Even if I write something on a computer, if I want it to be good I print out my first draft double or even triple-spaced. The I revise with a pencil in hand, far away from my computer. That's when the real work happens.

Truman Capote had that legendary dis of Jack Kerouac ("this isn't writing it's typing!"), and even controlling for his bitchiness he was absolutely correct. I feel like we loose an important creative moment in not putting pen to paper at some point in the process. Writing long-hand involves a very different skill-set than tapping. Word processing makes writing too easy and this has had a negative impact on the quality of writing: words difficult to produce are necessarily well-chosen ones.

[EphGuy]

There are things you mustn't do on this thread, such as write a realistic 'first time' story if your first time occurred some time prior to your eighteenth birthday, as mine did. You'd have to qualify: "it was the summer between my sophomore and junior year of high school and I had just turned eighteen (because I was wicked retarded and was left back a couple of times).

And of course you can't write about a those real quickies where the condoms are no where in site.

Personally I think this should be a forum where members are at full liberty to exercise their rights under the First Amendment (while they still have them). There's no harm in writing about it.

[Críostóir]

I demur. I think sex is one topic where it behooves one to toss Strunk and White out the window. Passion is what a neuropsychiatrist would call a 'pre-frontal' state and by definition does not recommends itself to linear thought. I find that rules of good grammar, capitalization, punctuation, etc, get in they way of the flow of the action. Periods are as obtrusive as the awkward cuts between positions in poorly filmed porn. Great sex is like a run-on sentence. Attempting to capture the concupiscent moment may have been the inspiration behind the modernist movement. Episode 18: Penelope (a.k.a. Molly Bloom's monologue). Need I say more?

I don't think most beginning writers should try this. Stream of Consciousness is an interesting technique, but it's not just spewing out all the words that come into your head. It's supposed to LOOK like all the THOUGHTS coming into someone's head, but it's actually more difficult to do well than writing plain, straightforward prose.

And rules of grammar etc. when violated without that very high-bar skill toss the reader right out of the story, kill the boner, and leave him looking for something else to do.

There are things you mustn't do on this thread, such as write a realistic 'first time' story if your first time occurred some time prior to your eighteenth birthday, as mind did. You'd have to qualify: "it was the summer between my sophomore and junior year of high school and I had just turned eighteen (because I was wicked retarded and was left back a couple of times).

Yeah, the "I was an 18-year-old sixth grader when I sucked my first cock" stories. Lame.

But you see why they can't have underage content, right? The US and UK (I don't know about Oz and NZ) are INSANE right now about underage content. "Someone has to protect the [wholly imaginary] children from exploitation [even though they're not being exploited, aren't children but teenagers, and, hello, don't exist ]!" We're living in a world where an elderly lady was threatened with arrest for photographing an empty swimming pool because the pool was sometimes used by children, even though it was off season and there were no children (or in fact anyone else but her and the misguided asshole authority figure) present at all. Yes, you know pedophiles get off looking at pictures of empty swimming pools. Perverts.

Under those circumstances, it's entirely appropriate for JUB to be cautious.

And of course you can't write about a those real quickies where the condoms are no where in site.

If this is a rule here, it's seldom if ever enforced. I've never seen a case of a story being objected to on these grounds (not by the mods, anyway...members object to all sorts of stuff). Do you know of any? There are plenty of condomless stories on here.

Personally I think this should be a forum where members are at full liberty to exercise their rights under the First Amendment (while they still have them). There's no harm in writing about it.

If the US Government (or any state or local government IN THE US) were in charge of this site, the First Amendment would apply. It's privately run, so it doesn't. As a friend of mine said about a site he runs, "if I want to make a rule that gerunds may not be used on my site, I'm entitled to do that."

[DonQuixote]

Criostoir,
As usual, germane, appropos, succinct.

[EasyRory]

Yeah, the "I was an 18-year-old sixth grader when I sucked my first cock" stories. Lame.

Going the other way, I dislike teenaged TV characters being played by 30 year-olds. Of course, that's not a prose problem, just an annoyance.

A couple of my characters have been quite young. I have tried leaving the age unstated and just specifying the character's attributes (youthful appearance, naive, inexperienced); then I let the reader decide how old the character might be. One time the character gave his age but it was plain he was lying. Autolycus let me get away with it. [Alternatively, maybe the lying part wasn't as obvious to the reader as I hoped.]

[Autolycus]

I have been following this discourse with interest. We have a set out guidelines here - rules if you prefer - to ensure that the stories do not attract or encourage those who spoil the web by exploiting their child-porn perversion.

As for style and presentation, I would just say that authors have to bear in mind that their readers have to follow the text on screen, unless they choose to print it. Large blocks of text on screen are difficult to follow and will often give rise to comment.

Finally, there is no objection per se to avant-garde writing - it is an important part of literature after all. However, this is not really a forum for experimentation in style. The readers want entertainment.

Ezra Pound said, "Artists are the antennae of the race" in recognition of innovation. We all aspire to our antennae providing good reception.

[thevofl]

One tip that has greatly improved my writing is a technical one. I have my Mac read me my story. I hear it out loud without my own inflections. It is amazing how you pick up the tiniest mistakes. I have learned that I have the habit of using the same word about ten times in the same paragraph. Hearing the story spoken to me, those words are clearly repetitively annoying. So I am aware that those words need to be addressed and changed.

On the Mac (I am currently using 10.8.2), go to System Preferences then Dictation and Speech (it used to be under Accessibility in previous OS's). Select Alex from the voices (It is the most realistic sounding voice for American English). I sped the voice up, to halfway between normal and fast—the human brain can process speech faster than a person can speak. Then check the box for "Speak selected text when the key is pressed." I don't remember what the default was as I changed it to Option+Z (Two keys close to each other on the keyboard). So now when I am in MS Word writing, I highlight the text, hit the keystrokes, and hear my words spoken to me.

I'm sure that there is software for the PC out there, but I do not know that system as well. The software is typically designed for the visually impaired.

You can also highlight, right click, and select "Add spoken track to iTunes". It does just that. It's great to experience my story on the long drives I have to take.