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  1. #1
    JUB Addict gewhite3's Avatar
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    More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Interesting how these scumbags denounce the very thing they supported after destroying so many lives. A little too little, too late if you ask me. At least they are coming out publicly about it but that's the only good thing I can say about it.

    Source Article: Advocate.com

    Five former leaders of "ex-gay" ministries Down Under have publicly condemned converstion/reparative therapy, according to the Sydney Star Observer.

    The Aussie leaders said they were inspired to make their comments by the recent apologies of three former "ex-gay" leaders at an "ex-gay" survivors conference in Los Angeles.

    "There was not one person that I met or worked with who, in any genuine way, achieved the fundamental transformation from homosexual to heterosexual," Paul Martin, former leader of Exodus in Melbourne, told the Observer.

    According to some of the former "ex-gay" leaders, conversion therapy teachers in Australia believe men become gay because they had emotionally distant fathers. Their therapy included "minders," who would follow the enrollees to make sure they were behaving themselves.

    "Some people have suicided," Anthony Venn Brown, who spent 22 years trying to be straight, told the newspaper. "But most people have now come to terms with their sexuality. There is no success rate [with conversion therapy]." (The Advocate)
    Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness!!!

  2. #2
    The gay gargoyle G-Lexington's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    It doesn't matter how many ex-gays become ex-ex-gays. As long as homosexuality exists, as long as people feel desperate for themselves (or their loved ones) to live heterosexual lives, and as long as there's money to be made, there will exist people willing to take that money to convert gays into straights.

    Lex

  3. #3
    Circe Infuria
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    "Some people have suicided," Anthony Venn Brown, who spent 22 years trying to be straight, told the newspaper. "But most people have now come to terms with their sexuality. There is no success rate [with conversion therapy]."

    What a sad price to pay.

  4. #4
    JUB Addict gewhite3's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    It's very sad. It's impossible to know just how many lives these people have ruined.
    Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness!!!

  5. #5

    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    I have only sympathy for these people. Yes they helped other people hate themselves, but no one forced those people to go to an ex gay clinic. It was their own self loathing and the message society taught them, that they were despicable.

    I have no problem with these people as long as the y have a conscious and try to undue the institutional contraception they help create with the ex-gay movement.

    More hate won't fix this, only love and teach people to understand and accept our humanity and basic goodness.

  6. #6
    ...and I'm not sorry JUB Friend Soilwork's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    I hope they live in shame their whole lives. I hope they choke on their appology.

    I hope they see how many peope they inspired to kill themselves and well.. kill themselves. The world would be a better place without them.

    Their own cowardice lead them to hurt millions of people and their very existence was used as a weapon against those of us who aren't pathetic losers and had the spines to come out.

    Awful, horrible excuses for human beings.

    Dreadful bottom feeders.

    I won't feel sorry for them ever.
    Gentlemen.... Thank you.

  7. #7
    The gay gargoyle G-Lexington's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    >>>I have only sympathy for these people. Yes they helped other people hate themselves, but no one forced those people to go to an ex gay clinic. It was their own self loathing and the message society taught them, that they were despicable.

    Oh, come on. They hung out a shingle. They announced they could cure any homosexual for $599.95. They're like those people who sell "make your dick grow" pills, only much worse. They don't just sell sugar pills - they made people feel utterly worthless, and cost some people their lives. Had they had the guts to tell the truth - "there's nothing we can do to 'cure' homosexuality" - and send these people to someone to help them come to grips with it, these people would most likely still be alive. But no. They wanted the money. And if it meant convincing some people that the reason they were faggots was because they just weren't TRYING hard enough, hey, as long as the checks clear.

    I'm glad they've stopped.
    They never should've started.
    No sympathy from this corner.
    Not until they work at suicide hotlines and AIDS centers for at least as long as their little "center" was open.

    Lex

  8. #8
    ...and I'm not sorry JUB Friend Soilwork's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Lexington View Post
    I'm glad they've stopped.
    They never should've started.
    No sympathy from this corner.
    Not until they work at suicide hotlines and AIDS centers for at least as long as their little "center" was open.

    Lex
    For free.

    And donate all their blood-money back to the gay community and do out-reach work with gay youth.

    And even then, I'll still hate them and wish they were dead.

    but I'm like that.
    Gentlemen.... Thank you.

  9. #9

    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Lexington View Post
    >>>I have only sympathy for these people. Yes they helped other people hate themselves, but no one forced those people to go to an ex gay clinic. It was their own self loathing and the message society taught them, that they were despicable.

    Oh, come on. They hung out a shingle. They announced they could cure any homosexual for $599.95. They're like those people who sell "make your dick grow" pills, only much worse. They don't just sell sugar pills - they made people feel utterly worthless, and cost some people their lives. Had they had the guts to tell the truth - "there's nothing we can do to 'cure' homosexuality" - and send these people to someone to help them come to grips with it, these people would most likely still be alive. But no. They wanted the money. And if it meant convincing some people that the reason they were faggots was because they just weren't TRYING hard enough, hey, as long as the checks clear.

    I'm glad they've stopped.
    They never should've started.
    No sympathy from this corner.
    Not until they work at suicide hotlines and AIDS centers for at least as long as their little "center" was open.

    Lex
    First these people were with the religous groups not the pretend psychology groups such as narth.

    Second they have relented and started campaigning against it. Here are some video testimonials that "inspired" this group to apologize. These aren't some con people who stop with one con to start another.
    http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/06/28/491
    http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/06/27/490

  10. #10
    Porn Star angedelune's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    There is a line in the movie Stardust *which is EXCELLENT btw* Robert DeNiro's character the sky pirate is gay, and he says "Why would people spend so much time and effort to please people whom they don't even want to be like anyways?"
    I will PUNCH YOU IN THE JUNK!!! +3 damage BITCH!!!

  11. #11
    Porn Star angedelune's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Capitalism is so much fun. You can sell anything as long as you put the right spin on it. Nothing like using the word of "God" to sell a product.
    I will PUNCH YOU IN THE JUNK!!! +3 damage BITCH!!!

  12. #12

    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyvb View Post
    Hey Lex.......as far as i'm aware (and i think i'm pretty well informed about what goes in here)....none of the ministries in Australia have ever charged money to join an ex-gay group. They are all volunteer organisations. Even though this still doesn't make the groups acceptable or right it does let us know they were never motivated by money.

    It seems in the US things are different....you have people like Narth and Exodus type ministries that charge people for programs or endless years of counselling.
    NARTH and Exodus are different though both say you can change.

    NARTH is completely secular organization (though it exists due to church referrals), they do all this fake pseduo psychology to explain, treat, and 'convert" former homosexuals to heterosexuals. These people will swindle your money

    Exodus on the other hand is a religious coalition of ex-gay groups. They will spend most of their time praying together, shamming you, reading bible verses and telling you god loves you but you must change for that love to work. While they take money (only through donations though) Exodus is a non-profit. They will swindle you just nowhere near as bad as NARTH.

    both are disgusting organizations, but I find NARTH far worse. The leaders of this organization don't have the excuse of fundamentalist religious brainwashing like Exodus, they pretend they are doctors when in reality they care nothing about science or psychology, instead they are practicing a world view and twisting reality to shape that world view.

  13. #13
    ...and I'm not sorry JUB Friend Soilwork's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyvb View Post
    They are all volunteer organisations. Even though this still doesn't make the groups acceptable or right it does let us know they were never motivated by money.
    So they ruined people's lives for FREE.

    Wow.. how.. altruistic.






    Bunch of fucking cowards. Sorry, but words from any of you are poison.
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  14. #14
    ...and I'm not sorry JUB Friend Soilwork's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    OK, so Anthony... I gotta ask.

    Now.. tell us..

    You were an ex-gay with a ministry. And as far as I can tell, there's no such thing as a "ministry" which doesn't rake in cash.

    So where did all those tax-free donations go? Did you fund the ex-gay brain-butchers or something else?

    And I checked out your site. I didn't see the words "sorry" or "appology" or "we suck as human beings" on there anywhere, although I did see Jerry Falwell referred to as "Sinere and Intelligent" and a kinda weird tribute to Tammy Faye Baker.

    I realize that you have seen the error of your ways and are now trying to make a buck as you make it right. Or maybe you're just trying to make a buck while you make yourself feel better for all the people who killed themselves thanks to you and your kind.

    Hey, we all gotta make a living.

    But tell me.. does the guilt for how many lives you've helped destroy keep you up at night or do you just not worry about the little people?
    Gentlemen.... Thank you.

  15. #15
    JUB Addict Ninja108's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    too little too late. God knows how many people committed sucide because they couldn't be "cured"

  16. #16
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Give me a pound of flesh.
    I said, "Give me a pound of flesh."
    Vengence is ours is the news here.
    Two wrongs will never repair the damage.
    I hear and I undeerstand the rant,
    I hear and feel the anger about what has been done.
    But it saddens me to see that those who do such shit,
    can look back and say, "See, how they are."
    Are we not just as mired down as the old Exodus Ministry
    that we loathed?
    Can anyone see that?
    I am hated,
    maybe if I hate back, and ever more,
    it will make something better.
    Bitterness in the end only destroys the person
    who is bitter.
    Shep+
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  17. #17

    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Having undergone the entirely inadequate sort of 'ministry' myself in the U.K. I can only say that most of the folk involved in it are NOT evil or horrible but just misled. They are sincere in their beliefs and not motivated by money; in fact their ministries often operate on a shoestring budget!) That is NOT to underestimate the awful oppression and damage they can inflict but to put their foolishness into perspective. When they see the errors of their ways and go public I think we owe it to them to support them and to forgive past wrongs. They have been as much the victims of deception and lazy thinking. Their public disavowal may come at great personal cost and is clearly done to prevent further affliction and advance intelligent acceptance of homosexuality. And when it comes from such a quarter surely the message for acceptance is all the more compelling?!
    I say forgive....and believe me I have suffered at their hands.

  18. #18
    ...and I'm not sorry JUB Friend Soilwork's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by marcuspig View Post
    I say forgive....and believe me I have suffered at their hands.
    How about we let them suffer at OUR hands for a bit and THEN call it even?

    I mean... It's not like I wanna rip their arms out of their sockets... (enough to actually do it), but maybe we can come up with some kind of electric shock machine...

    Oh, wait.. they all probably have those anyway, right?
    Gentlemen.... Thank you.

  19. #19
    Neat Monster glo-unit's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Does anyone one have any experience with the US ex-gay ministries, I'd like to know how different the experience is than the overseas ministries.
    "It's strange to have a creation out there, a deeply mutated version of yourself, running loose and screwing everything up. I wonder if this is how parents feel." Dexter Morgan

  20. #20

    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Lexington View Post
    It doesn't matter how many ex-gays become ex-ex-gays. As long as homosexuality exists, as long as people feel desperate for themselves (or their loved ones) to live heterosexual lives, and as long as there's money to be made, there will exist people willing to take that money to convert gays into straights.

    Lex
    Very true.

  21. #21
    ...and I'm not sorry JUB Friend Soilwork's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyvb View Post
    Never being an ex-gay leader or a publically professing ex-gay I didn't feel the need to apologise........I have though told my story honestly and openly ....warts and all. People will be able to make thier own judgements from that I guess.....after reading the entire story from early childhood to current day.
    got it.

    so you're more of a victim and less of a victimizer.

    OK, I'll remove you from that list of people who's arms I wanna rip off that I was talking about above.

    I'm not sure I know much more.. I'll have to take a closer look.

    If you never once talked about how you were cured and encouraged people to also go to the brain butchers, I'll give you a pass. Past that, even a simple country minister who's trying to make people make the same mistakes he's made... well..
    Gentlemen.... Thank you.

  22. #22
    ...and I'm not sorry JUB Friend Soilwork's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyvb View Post
    GLBTIQ people
    fuck.

    What do the "I" and the "Q" stand for?

    this boat is getting a bit crowded.
    Gentlemen.... Thank you.

  23. #23
    Neat Monster glo-unit's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by Soilwork View Post
    fuck.

    What do the "I" and the "Q" stand for?

    this boat is getting a bit crowded.
    I'm pretty sure the Q is for Questioning, I have no idea what the I is for thou.
    "It's strange to have a creation out there, a deeply mutated version of yourself, running loose and screwing everything up. I wonder if this is how parents feel." Dexter Morgan

  24. #24
    ...and I'm not sorry JUB Friend Soilwork's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    "questioning?"

    Oh for fuck's sake.

    what I have to be nice to the lily-liver people too?

    "Oh, I dont' know what I am... lables are for clothes... can't you make a category for me too?"








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  25. #25
    Porn Star Treborf's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by Soilwork View Post
    fuck.

    What do the "I" and the "Q" stand for?

    this boat is getting a bit crowded.
    Ha. I was at some academic forum on gay issues and I remember seeing LGBTTSIQASGL on a pamphlet. Gotta love academia.

    And the "I" stands for "Intersexed".

  26. #26
    ...and I'm not sorry JUB Friend Soilwork's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyvb View Post
    Maybe it would be easier to say sexual minorites and genders disorders.......

    Gender disorders?

    Seems you have a ways to go, still.














    If anyone needs me, I'll be in my trailer.
    Gentlemen.... Thank you.

  27. #27

    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by Soilwork View Post
    fuck.

    What do the "I" and the "Q" stand for?

    this boat is getting a bit crowded.
    The I stands for intersex, or someone who is neither exclusively male nor female (genetically or through genitals). Aka 'hermaphrodites'. Note there are dozens of forms of hermaphroditism due to genetic, prenatal environment, and afterwards. Some of them are fertile and look like a normal male or female, some of them hormonally are similar to a normal male or female till they hit puberty, or in the 40s, some of them are less clear if they are more similar to a male or a female through genitally...also some definitions of intersex include people whose sex organs/secondary sexual characteristic dont' fully develop even though chromosomally they are fully male/female, also a few but not many include turner's syndrome (only 1 x)

    I just find it really sad and at the same time gross, not something I want to think about and at the same time I really pity them.

  28. #28
    ...and I'm not sorry JUB Friend Soilwork's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland00 View Post
    The I stands for intersex, or someone who is neither exclusively male nor female (genetically or through genitals). Aka 'hermaphrodites'. Note there are dozens of forms of hermaphroditism due to genetic, prenatal environment, and afterwards.
    Got it.

    Ok, they can stay.

    the "questioning" people will have to choose a label, grow some balls or just cut them off.
    Gentlemen.... Thank you.

  29. #29
    Neat Monster glo-unit's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyvb View Post
    i was joking....hence the

    one of the problems we face communicating on the internet......humour.
    And how easily things are misunderstood, and ravenstar you can only edit post for about ten minutes after you post them.
    "It's strange to have a creation out there, a deeply mutated version of yourself, running loose and screwing everything up. I wonder if this is how parents feel." Dexter Morgan

  30. #30
    ...and I'm not sorry JUB Friend Soilwork's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyvb View Post
    .......even some in the gay community. Its the latter that i have trouble understanding....
    well, then, let me explain.

    I hate very few groups of people, but Ex-gays are at the top of my list.

    I hate them.

    I really do.

    They're cowards. They're liars. They're weak and spineless.

    They're people who allow others to give them their opinions and are incapable of thinking for themselves. They're incapable of LIVING for themselves.

    But THAT isn't why I hate them.

    I hate them because they're not just cowards who do themselves damage and kill themselves.. Then I'd just feel sorry for them. I hate them because they inflict their self-hatred on a whole community.

    they allow themselves to willingly be used as weapons against those of us who came out and lived our adult lives with some honesty and dignity from the beginning. Unable to live life on their own terms, they ruin the lives of the people (and their families) who have the guts that they dont' have.

    I don't want to hear that I just don't understand how hard it was for you.

    You think it was easy to come out at 18? It wasn't. But I did it and so could have all the Ex-gays out there who caved in to pressure from the haters. (and yes, I live in Los Angeles, but I grew up in a farming village of 1,700 people in Northern Canada.)

    Trust me, your inability to come out has hurt us. A lot.

    And your coming out later in life hurt the gay community too. Gay men who use women to cover up make all gay people look like users.. like liars.. people who carelessly trample over the lives of others. They make gay men look deceitful and selfish.

    I don't mean to dump on you.. but you say you don't understand why you aren't just welcomed into the community that you helped destroy for so long... why should you be?

    Sorry, but you shit in your own pants and you're going to walk a few miles in them before the gay community is willing to forgive you.

    I see that you're trying to make things right, and I'll give you props for that. But the scars run very deep and healing takes a very long time.


    I don't know your personal story and maybe some of this doesn't apply to you. Maybe none of it does. But as I've said before.. Lie down with dogs, get fleas. Most Ex-gays are in that group.. You'll have to forgive me for not giving you the benefit of the doubt just yet.
    Gentlemen.... Thank you.

  31. #31
    ...and I'm not sorry JUB Friend Soilwork's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenstar View Post
    Taking the time to think before I respond to something that presses my buttons may well be something to add to my to do list.
    Let me know how you do with that. I might need some lessons.
    Gentlemen.... Thank you.

  32. #32
    ok455
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    A church in my city is having a cure gays thing.

  33. #33
    God-Emperor of JUB
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by Soilwork View Post
    well, then, let me explain.

    I hate very few groups of people, but Ex-gays are at the top of my list.

    I hate them.

    I really do.

    Funny I always thought that ultra- conservative Republicans Christians were on the top of your list..
    I mean to rule the earth,As he the sky We really know our worth,The sun and I!

  34. #34
    IntoxicatedwithHunkiness
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyvb View Post
    this quote below would have to be the most profound piece i've ever read.people who exist at the margins of society are very much like Alice in Wonderland. They are not required to make the tough decision to risk their lives by embarking on an adventure of self-discovery. They have already been thrust beyond the city’s walls that keep ordinary people at a safe distance from the unknown. For at least some outsiders, “alienation” has destroyed traditional presumptions of identity and opened up the mythic hero’s path to the possibility of discovery. What outsiders discover in their adventures on the other side of the looking glass is the courage to repudiate self-contempt and recognise their “alienation” as a precious gift of freedom from arbitrary norms that they did not make and did not sanction. At the moment a person questions the validity of the rules, the victim is no longer a victim.’

    ‘The Mythology of Transgression – Homosexuality as a Metaphor’
    by Jamake Highwater
    Well, with all due respect to Jamake Highwater.... What a steaming load of horseshit.

    "People who exist at the margins of society are very much like 'Alice in Wonderland'...."

    Mmm hmm...

    'Margins of society' ??

    "For at least some outsiders, 'alienation' has destroyed traditional presumptions of identity and opened up the mythic hero's path to the possibility of discovery."

    Umm.

    yes



  35. #35

    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    A couple of days ago CNN aired a programme entitled 'gay conversions'. I didn't have the time to watch it, but it should be available to view on the news channel's web site. I'm having trouble viewing the videos, but in case it's just my computer rebelling you may want to check out this link...

  36. #36
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    anthonyvb, it sounds like you're just really promoting your new ways. It's tacky and you're just dodging all the points that have been made by Soilwork with whom I have to agree. You really don't seem to grasp or don't want to grasp the severity of the situation. It affects everyone. Even how people look at themselves as gays. Instead your coming out saying "Read my book. Read my book! People say it's saved lives!" so what? Seriously man, so what? Personally I'm not interested in reading something that already sounds so self aggrandizing. And as it's been said before people have died. People have commited suicide, people have been bashed, young people have been forced into these institutions and what? The lives that you're now saving with your book are somehow helping these lives that have gone down because of work that if you were not directly involved with at least were aware of without saying anything?

    Dude. Really.
    j'ai trop des tristes pensés pour ça je veux crier
    je ne suis pas contente furieuse comme un enfant

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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    I have a simple question to those of you that seem to dislike Anthony what would you like see happen to him outside of death. I am banned from here...banned from the gay commmunity? Sent back into the cloest? He made a mistake I know a big one but guess what he's human we all are think about that and also think about the next time you pick up that "stone" and say to yourself am I without sin?



    As for me Anthony go forth and sin no more.
    I mean to rule the earth,As he the sky We really know our worth,The sun and I!

  38. #38
    ...and I'm not sorry JUB Friend Soilwork's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    This is starting to remind me of another conversation..



    she's a self-serving scumbag who also has a book to sell and won't answer any questions buy sure says "Buy my book" an awful lot.
    Gentlemen.... Thank you.

  39. #39
    ...and I'm not sorry JUB Friend Soilwork's Avatar
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by JohanLarson View Post
    Soilwork, I see your point, too, but I think you're being a little bit unfair. You don't understand the psychology of the Christian cult. On the other hand, you're absolutely right about the suicides.
    Do you think I was hatched out of an egg in West Hollywood or something?

    I grew up in an oppressive rural town under the stranlge-hold of the extreme conservative leadership of the Baptist church. I get the fucking Christian Cult thing.

    I also get that some people don't have my own personal strength of character.

    That being said, I'm not being unfair at all.

    You know what? When I came out I was barraged from my family with all sorts of suggestions and demands that I go get "fixed." My family (aside from my little brother who's stayed by my side through everything) rejected me because I "chose" to stay gay since spineless losers who claimed to have been cured by Jesus told them that "there is a way out of homosexuality." Trust me, Ex-gays deserve my ire and I seldom hold back from giving people what they deserve.

    I'm ALLOWED to tell Ex-gays that they have helped create the extreme anti-gay atmosphere in this world because THEY are the ones who fucked it up.

    Men who come out later in life after using a woman and children as props in the performace that was their "life" only make things worse. Sometimes I feel like I should tell them that they made their decision and they should live with it. That they should go back into the closet and just deal with the consequences of their deceitful lives.

    Yes, I realize that Anthony has seen the error of his ways and wrote a little book about it, but to all the fallen soldiers out there who he hurt... it's a bit too little and a lot too late.

    Maybe one day I can see it in myself to just shrug it off. But I really hope I'm never that apathetic.
    Gentlemen.... Thank you.

  40. #40
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Sure.

    What the hell?
    Gentlemen.... Thank you.

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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyvb View Post
    quite amazing the assumptions and judgement in this place. Maybe we should hold every single american accountable for the invasion of Iraq......according to your rules.

    maybe you guys aren't realising how wonderful it is that people are now having the courage to come out and speak against the ex-gay programs.....it seems like its more important to argue the rights and wrongs......time to focus on the present and the future i think.....that the only thing we have the pwer to change.
    Youre' not a victim. Don't try playing that because you're not a victim. And I really have to remind you or emphasize of Soilwork's point these places, these attitudes have affected the way people have looked at gays and how gays look at themselves. These intitutions that promote the clandestine act of heterosexual marriage as opposed to vile homosexual lives is what creates closet cases. Men running around telling everyone that they've changed and so can you by the mercy of god are utilized to further support homophobia with an attitude of "Well if he did it why can't you?"

    And dude, I grew up catholic. How can gay men not understand the cult of christianity when we all have to get on his knees for him. My father took me to an exorsist. Then I said to god "Please make me straight" but I still got hard ons over hot dudes. So that crazy cult is a faculty of an inept being. So for this useless inept being who existance is anyting but proved empirically we should go in like lemmings attempting to renounce ourselves and chastice others? Perhaps if you're a pathetic sheep. The list is endless of the gay men that have had to deal with violence and homophobia. There probably isn't a person here who hasn't got a story of homophobia that could break your heart, and you're playing victim? Dude.

    Jesus fucking Christ man, just look at that yankee video and tell me that every gay person should welcome you with open arms.

    Anthony, I'm a person with a disability. I have spinal bifida. You know what you're actions are like. It's like me saying that just because I can walk with a limp and am not in a wheelchair I am not desabled and therefore anyone in a wheelchair should just work harder and have faith so they can walk without taking into consideration who they really are just to further endorse my personal cause. That's vile and sick.
    Your example of Iraq is completly unrelated because many Americans are denoucing the war. Many Americans have from the start. Just because you were confused or ashamed into admitting who you were because you gave in to Patriarchal bullshit of what it means to beproper human being doesn't quite make for the same analogy. But then I guess in a world where Condeleza Rice exists anything is possible right?

    It's not your struggle to come out that I have a problem with. We all have that struggle. We all go through a period of wondering if indeed we are evil. And if you're a christian perhaps you wonder about burning in hell. But you know what? FUCK YOUR GOD. And you turned your struggle and useto commit horrible things,even by ommission -that's a christian word- then it says something about you.

    You wanna play victim play?Let's play victim. I was raped. Should I rape? I was beaten as a child by my parents. Should I continue on with the abuse? I was survived a war -El Salvador 1989- should I pick up a gun and go on a killing rampage? I could justify it. According to you, I can and then repent and all would be well. I'm just a victim.
    j'ai trop des tristes pensés pour ça je veux crier
    je ne suis pas contente furieuse comme un enfant

  42. #42
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    OK... so people can stop PMing me to see if I got the chapter.. I did.

    I read it.

    No, it didn't change my opinion and it actually made it worse.

    He went to this sort of Nazi-like concentration camp run by a closeted lesbian I'll call "Helga" where they made him throw out his pink shirts and bikini underwear. You'd think that his first clue would have been knowing that his love of cock at train stations didn't come from pink or butt-floss but no.. he went along with the forced labour from dawn until dusk and allowed himself to be watched while taking showers (so he wouldn't masturbate because as we all know masturbation causes love of cock). This was supposed to beat the homo out of him, I guess. He doesnt' seem to question the methods.

    They took all his money from his government payout and when he got a job he was expected to hand over all his paycheques. They fed him poorly but he doesn't seem to connect the dots that they were taking advantage of him and taking his money... he says they were on a tight budget. Some people never learn.

    He just sat there as Helga the Horrible yelled at them, poked them with pens and called people "slut" and "queen" and reduced them to tears in front of each other for her own amusement. Even when he left the place she outed him to his family and called him "one of Sydney's worst homosexuals" and then continued to lie about thing he'd done.

    But he just stood there and took it. Apparently they didn't thorw out that green astroturf shirt that says "WELCOME" on the back.

    Helga is now apparenlty living with her female "companion" but he doesn't seem hurt that he was pretty much robbed and abused by her.

    The chapter ends there, but although you'd think anyone with a clue would wise up and see that gay conversion is a crock.. he didn't.

    He still married a prop and had some prop kids in his prop life.

    The chapter he sent me was a study in lifestyles of the weak and the spinless.

    Just makes me shake my head at what people will do to avoid having to stand up for themselves.
    Gentlemen.... Thank you.

  43. #43
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyvb View Post
    maybe you guys aren't realising how wonderful it is that people are now having the courage to come out and speak against the ex-gay programs....
    Sorry.. my last post until I decide to post again. I promise.

    Yes, it's wonderful that people are coming out.. it's not wonderful that they had to ruin a lot of lives while they found their balls.

    thing is that I dont' really see enough anger from you. The woman who was bordering on a suicide cult leader who took your money and stole your clothes and forced you to work from dawn until dusk and had people watch you shower is living with her lover and you haven't made me accountable for what she's done. You don't even seem bugged.

    Where IS your anger?
    Gentlemen.... Thank you.

  44. #44
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyvb View Post
    are there things in your past that now looking back with more understanding you would not have done.
    Of course.

    But standing there while some cunt fart makes up lies about me like "He came to Church this morning wiping the makeup off his face" isn't on that list. My reaction would (even when in the closet and thinking I was borderline retarded) to have at the very least said "that's not true." Yours was to stand there and try not to cry.

    Anyway.. We're not going to agree on this and I can see that although you don't really acknowledge how you've hurt the community, you're at the very least trying to save the next generation from being.. well.. like you. were.

    Which does deserve at least some credit.
    Gentlemen.... Thank you.

  45. #45
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    Re: More denounce ex-gay conversion therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyvb View Post
    Love of self......the gay self....the real self......letting that person out and believing that inheritantly he is a good person who deserves dignity and respect is what finally set me free........22 years later.
    Good point Anthony. This one statement really sums it up because if the above were true, we wouldn't have self-hating, closeted GLBT*** people anywhere in the world.

    I would like to commend you for posting here and at least trying to bring some understanding to everyone. The ex-gay thing is a very sensitive topic (as you can obviously know) and that you deserve kudos for.
    Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness!!!

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