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  1. #1
    Oden_grey
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    Finally... Some Truth

    CNN Reports that many Americans think that Congress is corrupt:

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/...oll/index.html

    At least since 2001, most of our politicians have been attacking eachother on the personal level for every problem/event under the sun when their own houses hold mountains of dirty laundry. Why can't our politicians... as rich as they are already, serve the public good without entangling themselves in greed or scandal?

    To me... third parties should take a good deal of seats from Republicans and Democrats... I suppose that's when they'll finally work together for America... when their kickbacks and high-roller lifestyles are threatened by a new political force.

  2. #2
    JUB Addicts Orlandude's Avatar
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    Re: Finally... Some Truth

    The corrupt part of Congress, on both sides of the aisle, is only one thing. Their total sell-out of the American people to the Bush "regieme" is another. Just in case anyone hasn't noticed, they just rubber-stamped and handed Bush incredible power by effectively doing away with the Writ of Habeus Corpus, under the guise that it "protects" us from terrorists. In doing away with this basic American right, the government now has the power to not only arrest and imprison anyone they believe to be a terrorist, but they can arrest and imprison ANYONE! And if it's you or I, we have NO legal recourse...because Bush said so. If this isn't drifting towards the roots of dictatorship, I don't know what is. Congress should be completely purged. It is no longer about "government by the people, for the people". If Congress continues as it is, at the end of Bush's term there will be nothing left of what WAS America.

  3. #3
    Pococuranté belamy's Avatar
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    Re: Finally... Some Truth

    Surprise: CNN.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlandude View Post
    The corrupt part of Congress, on both sides of the aisle, is only one thing. Their total sell-out of the American people to the Bush "regieme" is another. Just in case anyone hasn't noticed, they just rubber-stamped and handed Bush incredible power by effectively doing away with the Writ of Habeus Corpus, under the guise that it "protects" us from terrorists. In doing away with this basic American right, the government now has the power to not only arrest and imprison anyone they believe to be a terrorist, but they can arrest and imprison ANYONE! And if it's you or I, we have NO legal recourse...because Bush said so. If this isn't drifting towards the roots of dictatorship, I don't know what is. Congress should be completely purged. It is no longer about "government by the people, for the people". If Congress continues as it is, at the end of Bush's term there will be nothing left of what WAS America.
    That´s democracy, that is, survival of the fittest demagogue.

  4. #4

    Re: Finally... Some Truth

    Wouldn't it be wonderful if all politicians fought for what was right for America and its' citizens?. Afterall, that's what they were/will be elected to do.
    But their desperate mud slinging campaigns clearly indicate they are want the power (undoubtedly for financial gain). I haven't observed any candidates that seem to be "crusaders" for just doing the right things on behalf of their constituents.
    It's going to be just another "vote for the lesser evil" election.

  5. #5
    hty2
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    Re: Finally... Some Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Oden_grey View Post
    CNN Reports that many Americans think that Congress is corrupt:

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/...oll/index.html

    At least since 2001, most of our politicians have been attacking eachother on the personal level for every problem/event under the sun when their own houses hold mountains of dirty laundry. Why can't our politicians... as rich as they are already, serve the public good without entangling themselves in greed or scandal?

    To me... third parties should take a good deal of seats from Republicans and Democrats... I suppose that's when they'll finally work together for America... when their kickbacks and high-roller lifestyles are threatened by a new political force.
    I am in indepentent (may my father foregive me--he's a Republican but he says all politicans are crooks), but I am sick and tired of the graft and corruption which permeates BOTH of the major political parties in the U.S. Unfortunately, Independent and Libertarian candidates have little chance of getting elected to national office because those minor parties simply do not have the organization or the numbers to be considered a serious threat to the major political parties. I also resent the fact that I must declare my political preference when voting in the primaries. The concept of an Open Primary is long overdue in the U.S.

  6. #6
    Toriko
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    Re: Finally... Some Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by hty2 View Post
    Unfortunately, Independent and Libertarian candidates have little chance of getting elected to national office because those minor parties simply do not have the organization or the numbers to be considered a serious threat to the major political parties.
    Not to mention that you only see true bipartisanship when they work together to crush any upstart opposition.
    I also resent the fact that I must declare my political preference when voting in the primaries. The concept of an Open Primary is long overdue in the U.S.
    So true!

  7. #7
    Toriko
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    Re: Finally... Some Truth

    What do you expect when we have congressmen like this:
    PATRICK MCHENRY (R-NC): The question remains, though: What person, group or political entity had these nasty instant messages and possessed the e-mails in order to solicit this story? And in a partisan environment like we’re in right now in Washington, four weeks out from a national election, that question must be asked.

    WOLF BLITZER: So what you’re suggesting — and correct me if I’m wrong, because you’ve been doing this for the last few days — that Democrats are behind the timing of the release of this information? Is that your accusation?

    MCHENRY: Well, look, all the fact points lead to one question: Did Rahm Emanuel or Nancy Pelosi have any involvement on the strategic or tactical level? This morning on “This Week with George Stephanopoulos,” the question was asked of Rahm Emanuel. His reaction was he did not see the instant messages or e-mails. He repeatedly said, he did not see. I’ve asked him to testify under oath to assure the American people that he was not involved in this issue in any way, shape or form.

    BLITZER: Do you have any evidence at all that Democrats or others might have been behind the timing of this scandal?

    MCHENRY: Look, let’s be honest…

    BLITZER: Do you have any evidence to back that charge up?

    MCHENRY: No, no, actually, if the Democrats had any issue with saying this, putting all the facts out on the table, they would say, certainly, I’ll testify under oath that I had no involvement in it. They’ve said no.

    BLITZER: Well, you don’t have any evidence, though, right?

    MCHENRY: Well, look at the fact points.

    BLITZER: Yes or no, do you have any evidence, Congressman?

    MCHENRY: Do you have any evidence that they weren’t involved?

    BLITZER: I’m just asking if you’re just throwing out an accusation or if you have any hard evidence.

    MCHENRY: No. It’s a question, Wolf. The question remains, were they involved? And if they were not involved, they need to say clearly. And it’s a question. It’s not an accusation.
    Instead of explaining it myself, the link I found this already covered it for me:
    Two things about this exchange merit consideration. First, McHenry's distinction between a question and an accusation is, well, ridiculous. It is no different than asking McHenry whether his mother used to work as a prostitute and then insisting it was merely a question. After all, you weren't saying she was a prostitute, you were merely asking whether she was a prostitute. What's the harm in that? Second, McHenry makes a blatantly fallacious argumentum ad ignorantiam. Consider, for instance, the following exchange between a teacher and a student:

    Teacher: I am accusing you of cheating Billy.

    Billy: Do you have any proof that I cheated?

    Teacher: No, but do you have any proof that you did not cheat?

    In the face of his teacher's fallacious appeal to ignorance, what is Billy to do? It appears that Billy and the Democrats are in the same boat!

    This is the kind of piss poor reasoning that would get a student an F on a paper in one of my critical thinking courses. Yet, an American Congressman argues in precisely this way in his laughable efforts to somehow saddle Democrats with the blame for the Foley scandal. It appears that the good Congressman from North Carolina could benefit from both an ethics course and a course in critical thinking.
    Source: http://speaktruthtopower.typepad.com...ss_and_cr.html

    Speaking of that argumentum ad ignorantiam (when McHenry said, "Do you have any evidence that they weren’t involved?"), Jon Stewart, in a video I posted last week, mocked him as saying, with a Foghorn Leghorn-esque approach, "I may not be a big city, fancy lawyer, but it seems to me before you condemn a man shouldn't you have to prove everyone else in the country *didn't* do it?"

    And these are the LEGISLATORS of our country that can be this ignorant of the basics of law and justice in this country? Congress doesn't deserve any respect with people like this... and the RNC should've thought twice before sending this moron out. Hopefully he'll be voted out in a few weeks.

  8. #8
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    Re: Finally... Some Truth

    Let's face it. Regardless of party, we have the best democracy that money can buy.



    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

  9. #9
    Calator
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    Re: Finally... Some Truth

    I'm glad people are starting to see at least PART of the truth. More to come... just wait...

    For those of you who wish to vote, assuming of course Diebold hasn't rigged your ability to even do that, voting along traditional party lines only empowers those who help keep people fighting amongst themselves. Just look at how many people fight in this forum about Democrats and Republicans... You have more than a two choice decision to make. Don't just think you'll be throwing your vote away if you vote for a third party candidate. If you're not part of the solution to the problem, you accept the problem as it stands.

    http://www.infowars.com

    We WILL prevail! NO LAW IS ABOVE THE CONSTITUTION AND ITS AMENDMENTS!

  10. #10
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    Re: Finally... Some Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Calator View Post
    I'm glad people are starting to see at least PART of the truth. More to come... just wait...

    For those of you who wish to vote, assuming of course Diebold hasn't rigged your ability to even do that, voting along traditional party lines only empowers those who help keep people fighting amongst themselves. Just look at how many people fight in this forum about Democrats and Republicans... You have more than a two choice decision to make. Don't just think you'll be throwing your vote away if you vote for a third party candidate. If you're not part of the solution to the problem, you accept the problem as it stands.

    http://www.infowars.com

    We WILL prevail! NO LAW IS ABOVE THE CONSTITUTION AND ITS AMENDMENTS!
    Having frequented www.infowars.com on occassion and watched Alex Jone's movie on www.prisonplanet.net perhaps that's the REAL TRUTH that we should be talking about instead of stuff that most American's already know about/expect and are sick of hearing about.

    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

  11. #11
    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: Finally... Some Truth

    The system is fine - the best there is IMO - for sure it needs tweaking

    Folks are there too long - they have too much stake in staying in power instead of doing the right thing not just for their constituents but for their fellow man and the entire country

    In terms of corruption, in any "business", you have bad apples, those who abuse their position. It just so happens that in politics, there are more and more people watching and if you make a wrong step, the opponent party will take u down, or try to. So I don't think Congress is any worse than the general population. IMO, when they do corrupt things, they must be taken down hard - if only to prevent others who may be considering it.

    Ever see Mr. Smith Goes to Washington? great flick - Jimmy Stewart - check it out if u haven't

  12. #12
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: Finally... Some Truth

    Excellent flick -- but even the corruption in it would be far cleaner than most politics today.
    Has anyone read the Tom Clancy novel where all of Congress gets wiped out, and the newly-sworn President pleads with the country to send ordinary people, not politicians? I'd love to see that, but Clancy is a realist: it doesn't ake more than a couple of elections before it's back to business as usual.

    Why? It's the shadow government -- the lobbyists and the Congressional staff, yes, but even more so, the bureaucracy, all those fat asses warming expensive chairs, who the elected types turn to when they want to know something. There are literally legions of them, more than can be grasped, really.
    THAT, oh Irresistable chance1, is where the tweaking should begin, and with a vengeance: the chair-warmers should have term limits!

    Oh, BTW -- Congress is in fact worse than the general population. If I can find a link I'll post it, but it turns out that Congress has a far higher per capita crime rate than a random sampling of their constituents. It's scary!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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