Why do some gays vote Republican?

[Lostlover]

On CNN a few days ago there was a spokesperson for a group of gay republicans.

Wolf Blitzer asked the guy how could he be a republican when they're using gays as pawns to stoke up widespread anti-gay sentiment before elections and more importantly limiting their civil rights.

The spokesperson replied that he was for lower tax cuts and smaller government (the core of the Republican party).

But he still didn't answer Blitzer's questions in regards to civil rights.

I know there are gay Republicans out there, I just would like to understand why they vote Republican knowing that the party is against them marrying.

This is not an arguing thread, just a serious question.

I put this thread in this forum because I know it will be seen by a good portion of JUB posters. That might not necessarily be the case if I posted this thread in the political forums.

Thanks.

[CountryJohn]

Oh Boy!! I can't wait to see the responses to this one.

[bma1983]

I always wanted to know the same thing. Today’s Republican is a party, not for small government, or lower taxes, but a party for religious bigoted zealots. For gays to be affiliated with today’s Republican party is like Blacks joining the KKK.

[rotary]

The spokesperson replied that he was for lower tax cuts and smaller government (the core of the Republican party).

I have heard that since the Republicans have been in power after the last couple elections, the size of the federal government has actually doubled.

[slobone]

Sorry -- are Democrats in favor of gay marriage? I know Hillary Clinton and John Kerry aren't. You could have knocked me over with a feather when Eliot Spitzer came out in favor of it, but then he's only running for Governor of New York.

And I'm old enough to remember when a lot of gays voted for Hillary's beloved hubby, who promised to allow gays in the military. The result? Don't ask, don't tell, which has actually resulted in gays being booted out of the military at a higher rate than before.

So that's part of the answer. The other part is that the Republicans actually have a more ambiguous attitude to gays than you might think.

Remember there's more than one faction within the Republican Party. The Christian faction is the one that's the most worked up about homosexuality, but even there, there's some wiggle room. I remember when Jerry Falwell's longtime assistant finally came out. Jerry didn't seem too upset -- I think he forgave him, or something.

Then there's the Nouveau Riche faction -- the Palm Beach/Palm Springs/Palm Desert crowd. They positively adore gays, dahling, at least the wives do. Their lifestyle would hardly be possible without gay hairdressers, gay designers, gay confidants. Remember that Nancy Reagan's best friend was a gay man.

This is the faction that took Mark Foley, who nobody ever seriously suspected of being straight, under their wing. And he's a celebrity ass-kisser, it turns out, so he fit in perfectly.

The Bushes, coming as they do from the Old Money crowd, are also pretty tolerant, at least in private. There's the story about the time Barney Frank was at a White House reception with his partner, who's Hispanic. Bush said to the lover, in Spanish, "You should be with me instead of him, because I speak Spanish, and he doesn't." A joke, obviously, but WTF?

Then there's the neocons, who being mostly New York Jewish intellectuals, couldn't care less.

In short, gayness is tolerated among Republicans as long as you're discreet about it. But when the shit hits the fan -- uh-oh, guess who's not coming to dinner?

[JDsmagik]

My lesbian cousin told me that she voted for Republicans because they are Christians, like her. She told me that she isn't concerned about gay rights or any other issues. Just the religion thing.

As far as I can tell, the gay community has been divided in a similar fashion to the rest of the nation. With, of course, many more on the liberal side.

There just doesn't seem to be much of a middle ground these days.

It's really a shame because we get so little done besides pointing fingers at each other and playing the blame game.

[RoseNyland]

I believe it has something to do with that S&M stuff. Some people just like to be punished and humiliated.

[littlemonster]

Democrats = Republican Lite.

We need to end the two party system and have a viable third party.

[slobone]

I believe it has something to do with that S&M stuff. Some people just like to be punished and humiliated.

Picture this -- Sicily, 1942. Oh wait, that wasn't Rose. Which one was Rose?

[james1200]

they vote republican, lost baby, for two reasons. they have money and like the republican tax policies which obviously favor the wealthy and they loathe themselves.

[metta]

Well, I started out as a Republican. I was raised to be a Republican. I grew up in a Republican household and in a city where the majority of the people are Republicans. However, the Republicans of today are not the Republicans that I grew up with.

I was raised to believe that the government should stay out of peoples private lives. I was also always told that the Republicans wanted to eliminate the waste in over spending and minimize taxes. Todays' Republicans at best mimic this but their actions are the opposite. I have actually seen the Democrats do a better job at balancing budgets than the Republicans. The stock market historically does better when Democrats are in power. And they have done a better job of not ignoring important issues when they arise, such as the environment, health care, etc.

What the Republicans actual stand for and what they say they stand for are two entirely different things. And to me, actions speak much louder than words. Words are empty if they are not backed up by actions.

I have never registered as a Democrat. I do vote for Democrats frequently, but I'm registered as a Green Party member and have been for a long time. I don't see myself ever going back to the Republican Party. They do not represent a very optimistic view of the World to anyone but the some religious extremists and wealthy people (& wannabees) that are obsessed with greed. (Not all wealthy people people are like this.)

[slobone]

I was also always told that the Republicans wanted to eliminate the waste in over spending and minimize taxes.

I was told that too -- by the Republicans. But it turned out not to be true. Reagan actually tripled the national debt, contrary to what a lot of people mis-remember. It was Clinton that brought the budget into surplus for the first time in -- 50? -- years.

[mike_n_herrin]

i would ASSUME that people who are gay and vote republican are doing so because they have issues that are higher on their list of priorities other than gay issues.

[bw92116]

The Republican party is successful because it appeals to the childish, selfish, primitive being:

"It's your money!" "Get off my property!" "Gimme what I want and gimme now" "Outta my way or I'll shoot you dead." "I own this place and I'll do what I want with it."

They appeal to the primitive, selfish child in people and attract people to their party on that basis.

Gay people who fall for this are are giving more priority to their own bank accounts than to their own civil rights.

[Soilwork]

It's always funny when you hear Gay Republicans say "I beleive in REpublcian Principals like Equality for all and lower taxes and less government".

I usually burst out laughing and point directly at them.

Republicans may have believed in Equality for all 150 years ago, but they haven't since then. They now believe in Majority Rule and everyone else get out.

Gay Republicans are usually kinda pathetic in their every day lives.. they're the types who desperatly hide their orientation from their families (knowing that they'd be hated and ostricized by them) and use excises for not coming out like "it's no one's business who I'm fucking" even though they've been in 15 wedding parties and have never said "Sis, it's not my business who you're fucking".

And bw92116... brillliant.. so true.

[wareagleboy]

I am one of those guys who voted Republican in some of the last few elections. Being a little bit historian (major), I vote for the man and not the party. The big problem with the Democrats in the past presidential elections is that that have not put up the right nominee that can win period.

Harry Truman is considered by most historians as the last great president. He was somewhat of a "Cold Warrior" in his efforts in Korea, but did not pursue the MacArthur lead to fight Commies all the way to WWIII. He was for civil rights before they were popular. And he made big decisions that counted in WWII (the bomb) and made it possible for most of Europe to get past that difficult time with the Marshall plan.*

John Kennedy was just cut down before we knew how he would have handled Vietnam. Time will tell if Clinton was a good president, but he certainly made little progress with respect to gay rights.

I believe in small government with the least amount of taxes and the least amount of interference with personal lives. That would be Libertarian I guess, but we have never had a candidate that could win.

Everyone knows the current war in Iraq is not winnable and no longer makes sense. The money we spend there, plus all the other pork programs are ridiculous. I do not want to spend any more of my taxes on that kind of crap. We must always have some assistance to those who really need it (the handicap, the mentally handicap, the infirmed, etc.) and we are slipping there due to other expenditures.

I will vote for the man or women who best expresses my values in the future, but have been disappointed in the national candidates in the past.

I personally think it is time for the two parties to make changes or get a new one. We cannot spend like we do and not pay the consequences. We must value the right to every American to live their life as they chose. So how will I vote? For a fucking sorry candidate as I always do.

[M4P]

Hey Guys, I have moved this thread to its rightful location: Current Events & Politics

[snapcat]

Andrew Sullivan (gay conservative blogger) was on "All Things Considered" on NPR this afternoon. It was actually a very good interview, and would have likely answered some of the more serious questions here.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=6253752

I think the germaine issue is not that some gay people happen to be republicans, rather, some gay people happen to be conservative thinkers.

And Sullivan really hammers home how the GOP has been kidnapped by the religious right and the neo-cons- who are not really conservative at all.

Sullivan makes for a compelling argument in hammering the current GOP for the various pork bills passed by congress and the billions of dollars wasted, all the while not being able to respond to Hurricane Katrina. He also makes the case for legalizing gay marriage, or at least leaving it up to the states.

Anyone who believes that bigger government equals less personal freedom is probably someone who would be conservative in some ways. If you believe in personal responsibility and the so forth then, again, that would fall under conservative schools of thought.

True conservatives know that the GOP has been highjacked. And I think it's fair to point out that pure conservatism isn't what many of us rail against, rather, it's the newer crop of folk who profess to be conservative, all the while voting to reduce personal freedoms and increased government spending.

[Lostlover]

Sorry -- are Democrats in favor of gay marriage? I know Hillary Clinton and John Kerry aren't. You could have knocked me over with a feather when Eliot Spitzer came out in favor of it, but then he's only running for Governor of New York.

And I'm old enough to remember when a lot of gays voted for Hillary's beloved hubby, who promised to allow gays in the military. The result? Don't ask, don't tell, which has actually resulted in gays being booted out of the military at a higher rate than before.

So that's part of the answer. The other part is that the Republicans actually have a more ambiguous attitude to gays than you might think.

Remember there's more than one faction within the Republican Party. The Christian faction is the one that's the most worked up about homosexuality, but even there, there's some wiggle room. I remember when Jerry Falwell's longtime assistant finally came out. Jerry didn't seem too upset -- I think he forgave him, or something.

Then there's the Nouveau Riche faction -- the Palm Beach/Palm Springs/Palm Desert crowd. They positively adore gays, dahling, at least the wives do. Their lifestyle would hardly be possible without gay hairdressers, gay designers, gay confidants. Remember that Nancy Reagan's best friend was a gay man.

This is the faction that took Mark Foley, who nobody ever seriously suspected of being straight, under their wing. And he's a celebrity ass-kisser, it turns out, so he fit in perfectly.

The Bushes, coming as they do from the Old Money crowd, are also pretty tolerant, at least in private. There's the story about the time Barney Frank was at a White House reception with his partner, who's Hispanic. Bush said to the lover, in Spanish, "You should be with me instead of him, because I speak Spanish, and he doesn't." A joke, obviously, but WTF?

Then there's the neocons, who being mostly New York Jewish intellectuals, couldn't care less.

In short, gayness is tolerated among Republicans as long as you're discreet about it. But when the shit hits the fan -- uh-oh, guess who's not coming to dinner?

I can respect this. But at the last point, what if you wanted to be out with your sexuality and not closeted and still be an accepted Republican?

[Soilwork]

the Democrats sure aren't perfecft, but they ARE the lesser of two evils.

For now.

[naked gent]

These days I don't understand why anyone would vote republican.

[General_Alfie]

And Sullivan really hammers home how the GOP has been kidnapped by the religious right and the neo-cons- who are not really conservative at all.

Is that what she's saying today? Seems she changes her mind an awful lot, a woman's prerogative, I guess, but I seem to recall Miss Sullivan favoring Bush's tax cuts and the war in Iraq, too. All of that neocon bullshit? She supported that, too.

Maybe all that barebacking went to her head...

[iman]

It is really the Christian right that has been kidnapped by the Republicans. They have dutifully gone to the polls and voted Republican and barely gotten a hand job in return. The interests of the Republican hierarchy is to serve the interests of large corporations and wealthy constituents, everything else (abortion, gay marriage, lower middle class taxes, small government, terror, etc.) is simply intended to masturbate their various bases - and it works!

The average Republican, gay or st8, just likes getting jerked off by some Daddy figure spouting cliche after cliche, platitude after platitude, buzz word after buzz word.

[OtterJoq]

they vote republican, lost baby, for two reasons. they have money and like the republican tax policies which obviously favor the wealthy and they loathe themselves.

Exactly right.

[richardPB1]

Just give us a Truman, Kennedy democrat and I will stop voting republican. But Gore, Kerrey, Hillary? Yuk!

[General_Alfie]

Just give us a Truman, Kennedy democrat and I will stop voting republican. But Gore, Kerrey, Hillary? Yuk!

Ah, yes, the good old GOP days of kooky Goldwater, nutty Nixon, rancid Ronnie and goober George. Yes, I'll consider voting for the incompetent, terrorist-sympathizing, bin-Ladenist GOP when they get another Lincoln, or a normal human being.

[Kyanimal]

Serious question ... Without trashing the opposition, without using negatives (i.e., "'They' won't do this/that."), can anyone point out any POSITIVE Accomplishments/Reasons why the Republican Party should deserve votes at all? The Republicans have been in control of Congress since 1994, the White House since 2000, and even, arguably, recently, the Supreme Court! Yet, what GOOD have they done?? I'd really like to know!

I was raised "Republican"! (Richard Nixon was a "family friend"!) (Granted, not necessarily a "Good Thing"! ) But, the last Republican I voted for was George H.W. Bush! The Party that I used to know no longer seems to exist! Again ... I wonder ... what GOOD have they done???

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz

[dunno260]

I think at heart I am a republican. I think the government should ideally be small, be out of our lives, etc. etc. However, I don't know if we will ever get to the point as a society where that will be possible. I think everyone should have equal access to health care (and very strongly I might add). There are things more important to me than gay marriage. Poverty, health coverage, etc. those are more important than my ability to marry someone I know. And yes, the democratic party isn't doing a great job on any of those issues, but they are more willing to do something and at least try, and would be the most willing to take actions to fix the problems.

However, while I voted for Kerry, I am not sure I wanted him to win. I didn't like him, and thought he would have been an awful president. I don't think much of Bush either. Ultimately, living in Alabama made the decision to try to get some more democratic votes squeeked out in the stat.

[Homoerectus]

In the past, Republican were against those who lived off the working class by perpetuating welfare. The GOP was for personal responsibility such as not increasing welfare benefits just because the welfare household had another child, instead they proposed you practice birth control, personal responsibility. The GOP believed a man should keep what he earned and care for his family and not be forced by big government programs to pay for raising illegitimate children. The GOP believed in giving a hand-up, not a hand-out. The GOP was fiscally conservative. People who voted GOP believed the government should live within its means as opposed to the Democrats who were tax and spend liberals who believed it knew better than you how you should live you life.

Somewhere in the early 1980s, the GOP was hijacked by ultra-conservative religious zealots and spending liberals. Just as the Democratic Party of John Kennedy was hijacked by the ultra-left socialists like George McGovern and George Dukakis. Flyover country fears what the limousine liberals like the Michael Moores, Barbra Streisands, and Alec Baldwins espouse as front-men for the Democratic Party. The red states fear another Great Society.

But the two parties are no longer what they claim. Bush has become LBJ, another liberal with a war. The GOP passes spending bills and cuts taxes, mainly tax cuts for big business. The GOP gives big tax breaks to the oil companies who have been making obscene profits. The religious right supports the GOP because on the surface the GOP speaks out against homosexuality and gay marriage, abortion and all the hot religious issues. But the GOP does little other than talk. Still the religious right votes on the hot button issues, the GOP seems to be the only party for which they can vote. Much the same as those who vote Democrat vote against the GOP candidates who come out against abortion and gay rights.

What we all need to do is sit down with a legal pad and put the candidate's name at the top, draw a line down the center and write pro and con over each column. How does each candidate stack up for and against your issues. Disregard party, just how does the candidate stack up. When you finish, vote for the man or woman who best represents the majority of your views. If he/she is against gay rights but is for all of your other issues, he deserves your vote, regardless of party. Fuck the parties because they are fucking you every day.

[Kulindahr]

It is really the Christian right that has been kidnapped by the Republicans. They have dutifully gone to the polls and voted Republican and barely gotten a hand job in return. The interests of the Republican hierarchy is to serve the interests of large corporations and wealthy constituents, everything else (abortion, gay marriage, lower middle class taxes, small government, terror, etc.) is simply intended to masturbate their various bases - and it works!

The average Republican, gay or st8, just likes getting jerked off by some Daddy figure spouting cliche after cliche, platitude after platitude, buzz word after buzz word.

There may be some truth in that first part. Having been part of a VERY right-wing Christian congregation for a while, though, I can tell you why they do as you describe: fear. Oh, they won't admit to it, but they fear that if Democrats have power, morals will go out the window, and the AntiChrist will arise to "correct" the problem, only making things worse.

But a lot of those bases vote Republican because... well, of fear -- fear that if they don't stick with a party that can win some of the time, they won't be heard at all.
Hey, wait -- isn't that why some people here tell us all to vote Democrat? out of fear? Whoa.....

As for the final paragraph, strike "Republican" and substitute "American", and it's right on target... sadly enough.

[JayHawk]

I voted republican because I believe both parties are full of Sh#T on most issues. They bend their own ideas to play to an audience just like an actor or comedian works an audience. Their goal is power not service. I have served in the military for over 16 years and I think CLinton's landmark"don't ask don't tell" is the biggest step back that ever occured to the gay citizen in the military. SO many came out with out knowing the rules and were immediately discharged. It is truly a shame that no one truly holds a flag up for 10 percent of humanity. No matter what their statements are 10 percent don't win so your, our issues will not either.

[Soilwork]

Mazda.... um... that doesn't explain why you would vote for the REpbulcans..

at all.

[JayHawk]

True. I voted republican because they belive in a strong military. The also won't stand for bullshit. I stood the watch through all the Clinton years. I watched as men lost their lives and nothing was done. I knew the Republicans wouldn't lay down and quit. The head in the sand does not work. Diplomacy does not work. Final form of diplomacy does work. Why do you suppose you are hard pressed to find the majority of soldiers will not speak poorly about the war? We agree with it and we are the ones placing our lives on the line for our beliefs. Who the hell are these at home couch potatoes who are outraged at our losses?
I apologize. I am not here to preach. Most Americans will not take ten minutes to work out the history behind our countries actions and the issues that push and pull a candidate. So if we will live in 2 minute sound bites then I guess things like "We should all be equal" and "Lets end all death and poverty" work well. It seemed to work for Miss America. Does "I would work towards world peace" ring a bell?

[General_Alfie]

You sound French. You sound very, very French.

[tonyboy]

Just because I'm gay doesn't mean that I vote for a President or Congressman based on their attitude toward gay people. That seems somewhat short-sided, any person that votes on one issue only is not truly thinking about the country as a whole.
Kind of like the feminists of the 70's.... they only look to one issue.

I tend to vote Republican, though I've voted for many Democrats, especially locally. My first presidential vote was for George McGovern. I was actually more conservative then than now, but I figured Richard Nixon as a liar and thought an honest liberal would be better as president than a dishonest semi-conservative.

I voted for Ford over Carter, that is a vote I would never take back. Jimmy Carter was totally in over his head as Chief Executive. When Reagan ran the first time I voted for John Anderson.

As someone wrote above ^ if the Dems would offer a decent candidate for President I would consider voting for him/her. They haven't done so for many years.

One can be a Republican and gay; there are thousands (maybe millions, I don't know) that are.
The gay marriage thing is not a Republican vs Democrat issue.

I'm not too pleased with how the Republican Congress has handled things in recent years. Many of the programs that Bush has tried to pass have been stymied by the Democrats in the Senate; partial privitation of Social Security comes to mind.

[JayHawk]

Indeed I am wearing italian wool but thats about as close to french as it gets.

[General_Alfie]

Indeed I am wearing italian wool but thats about as close to french as it gets.

It's all Republican surrender sheep to me.

[JayHawk]

I must be french my comment was sent to the second page. Dammit!

[JayHawk]

AHhhh Sheep...but isn't that a different thread?

[Soilwork]

True. I voted republican because they belive in a strong military.

I mean, I guess that makes sense.

Although I don't see how keeping us in an unwinnable war is "strong" so much as "Stuborn".

but I'm Canadian.

[General_Alfie]

These aren't your regular sheep, you see, we're talking Republican surrender sheep, the kind of sheep that believe Republican lies, that say Jimmy Carter was a lousy president when, in fact, his economic record was far better than Ford's or Reagan's. The kind of Republican surrender sheep I refer to are the sheep that say they are pro-military yet stare off into sheepdom when current facts prove otherwise. These are the GOP sheep who surrender to al-Queda by creating a police state in America. Those sheep.

[JayHawk]

So this is the question I ask all with the "it is hard why not give up?" attitude towards this conflict? WHat else do we do? We were falling off of eight years of Clinton's " let play nice everyone" foreign policy. The acts of 911 were not planned overnight or even in Georgies year and a half in office.

I truly belive our biggest strength is our biggest weakness. We have been dealing with terroist for 30 years. Yet every four to eight years policy makers change and so does our foreign policy. We end up making more enemies by not staying by their side or standing our lines. The underdeveloped warring people of the middle east see our lack of a solid direction as weakness and they exploit that weakness.

Yet our ability to elect someone new when we don't like the results of their policies is our greatest freedom. It leads to a variety of ideas being presented and employed. Yet it cuts our throat in dealing with other countries because we are forever changing.

I agree this war against an idealism is not going to be easy. I do believe the enitire direction of our country will change in 2008. However that change will just present a lull for more jackals to leap on us.

[Kulindahr]

Unlike, of course, the sheep the Democrats would turn us all into by making the police state absolute via taking away all the guns from everyone except the police.


I met two gay guys who vote Republican because the Democrats are against self-defense. When I called Al Gore the 'pro-rape" candidate, they explained: one's sister, best friend of the other's sister, had been raped -- so they agreed with my description 100%.

[Soilwork]

You're not out to your parents, are you?

[Kulindahr]

You're not out to your parents, are you?

Who's that directed to??

[JayHawk]

These aren't your regular sheep, you see, we're talking Republican surrender sheep, the kind of sheep that believe Republican lies, that say Jimmy Carter was a lousy president when, in fact, his economic record was far better than Ford's or Reagan's. The kind of Republican surrender sheep I refer to are the sheep that say they are pro-military yet stare off into sheepdom when current facts prove otherwise. These are the GOP sheep who surrender to al-Queda by creating a police state in America. Those sheep.

How can you possibly defend Carter. Let me ask you this, Do you think the policies of a simple four year term could possibly affect the span of our economy to such an extent that it is evident? Reagan got elected because of Cater's inability to cure the economies ailments. In fact, I bet you believe the incredible economy of the Clinton first term has something to do with him taking an oath.

Economics is offered at many local post secondary institutions. Have a read.

[Soilwork]

Who's that directed to??

sorry.. not you.. that was directed to Mazdaboi.

But while we're on the subject...

[JayHawk]

Actually I am married, well as close I ever intend to be. With their blessing. The best thing is I get to keep all my shit if we ever go different directions.

Funny thing is you have nothing to offer in response but the schoolyard. So typically democrat.

[Soilwork]

Dude, I'm Canadian, I'm an NDPer.

try to keep up, ok?

The best thing is I get to keep all my shit if we ever go different directions.

Hm.. How typically Republican.

[JayHawk]

BTW you have still offered nothing. But that is the Canadian way. Sleep well maybe someday we will give back hockey.