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  1. #1
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    Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    Posted one minute ago. North Korea has announced they have successfully conducted their first nuclear weapons test.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061009/...koreas_nuclear

    Earlier today, Japan and the U.S. (even China) sent very, very strong warnings for N. Korea not to do this. Either sanctions are going to happen immediately, or we may see some bombs go down soon.

  2. #2

    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    Sure puts Iraq in perspective, huh? Not a perspective Bush and the neocons would have you, but a perspective nonetheless.

    As for China, they allowed this to happen, so I'm curious if they really are sincere with their 'very, very strong warnings'.

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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    Indeed, things happened so fast, I'm shocked the test even happened. Now that it has, its opened up a huge can of worms because the world can't ignore N. Korea anymore.

  4. #4
    RyzeAbove
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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    They did a missile test off the coast of Japan how long ago? like earlier this year right?

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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    Kim Jong-Il is like a spoilt kid. He wants everybody's attention. I was hoping he wouldn't do this.

  6. #6
    Delusions of Adequacy MadeUpName27's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    North Korea - The World's Newest Nuclear Power

    Yet another Foreign Policy disaster for George Bush.

    This can't be good news for the Republicans.
    Even if it gets Foley and Iraq off the front page...
    "For your benefit, learn from our tragedy. It is not a written law that the next victims must be Jews."
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  7. #7
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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    oh god i hope this doesn't mean we're going to send troups into n. korea!

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    Delusions of Adequacy MadeUpName27's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_n_herrin View Post
    oh god i hope this doesn't mean we're going to send troups into n. korea!
    No, it just means that the stock market will be shit tomorrow...


    Besides, we can't spare them from guarding the oil...
    oops...
    I mean, Promoting Christianity...
    shit...
    Promoting Democracy in the Middle East...
    "For your benefit, learn from our tragedy. It is not a written law that the next victims must be Jews."
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  9. #9
    Ryder11
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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    I don't support North Korea having nuclear weapon capabilities, it freaks me out. But, why is it that the United States and other countries, mainly on the UN Security Council as well as India, Pakistan, Israel etc. are able to produce and have nuclear weapons? I'm happy that Canada, although was part of the Manhattan project, didn't ever produce any nuclear weapons. Its highly unlikely, but the west could lead by example by destroying their nuclear weapons, in hopes to disarm North Korea, and Irans nuclear program.

  10. #10
    slobone
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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    No, we have no military option in N. Korea because they have big guns pointed right at Seoul, which isn't far from the border. Those guns would go off before we could drop enough bombs to do any damage.

    However, there is plenty of wiggle room left for sanctions. China, who is now royally pissed, has been basically keeping N. Korea alive, and S. Korea has been using a policy of "engagement" which now looks particularly naive. You can't engage with a lunatic.

    This will probably turn out to be the stupidest thing Kim Il Sung has ever done, and that's saying a lot. Remind me to rent Team America: World Police again.

  11. #11

    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    What will happen, in my opinion is a blockade of the country. We wont let anything in or out, unless we know what it is.

  12. #12
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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    Quote Originally Posted by ICO7 View Post
    Sure puts Iraq in perspective, huh? Not a perspective Bush and the neocons would have you, but a perspective nonetheless.

    As for China, they allowed this to happen, so I'm curious if they really are sincere with their 'very, very strong warnings'.

    I don't know whether China allowed this, but think of the situation when sanctions hit, and thousands of people try and flee N. Korea and end up in China. I don't think China wants that refugee problem.


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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    The politics of the region is very complicated historically, as Korea was once a whole sovereign country under a monarchy. When the Japanese in 1910 overtook the area, it was subjugated to the whims of its island neigbour in every degree of its everyday life.

    I'm sure that communism in Korea started out as it did in Vietnam, a nationalistic movement, but with a left wing agenda. The entry of the US in Vietnam to support a corrupt but non-Communist government seemed to concentrated the communist agenda against US capitalism, and the eventual insularisation towards a despotic regime. Over the years, N.Korea has been frustrated not only by its own ineptness, but at US attempts to curb its influence. It isn't surprising that eventually N.Korea would eventually try and seek to create nuclear missiles in an attempt to boost its prestige. It is a country which has been bashed by US negative press coverage ever since the Korea War which split the country in two, with the N.Korean communists made out to be the evil ones, and to which they seemed to have fulfilled that picture to a tee every time something about that coutnry leaks out.

    Had there been no restraint by China, would you think we'd've seen weapons earlier? They certainly seem to have nothing to loose now.

    However, we seem to see that Islam is becoming the new Communism. US foreign policy acts always to preserve US interests, irrespective of the eventual consequences in the distant future. If this current N.Korean situation is handled badly by Bush, we can expect nuclear war with S. Korea and the whole world will suffer the effects of fallout.


  14. #14
    RyzeAbove
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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    I thought that Russia occupied it after the Japanese left and forced communisim on them. Thats what I remember reading. Either way the poor North Korean people have been so much for the past 60-70 years. I was watching a program on the discovery channel about the death camps over there and I must say that it sickens me, just as what I am hearing about with that Faulong Gong stuff in China. Has anyone heard anything about that or possibly saw the same program I did?

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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    I could be wrong. As for FalunGong, that's the government for ya. Maybe we can be outraged at something, but changing the way that country works takes more than just outrage. Unfortunately, force seems to be the weapon of choice in such a debate.


  16. #16
    Weeman
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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    Very worried.

    It time to pulled out of Iraq. You know what I mean ?


  17. #17
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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    George W. Bush doesn't believe in having a dialogue with enemies of the United States .... something that Jim Baker was praised for in his tenure as Secretary of Defense under Ronald Reagan and Bush 41. Below is an interview that Baker had on Fox News Hannity & Colmes show last Friday night:

    Part of an Interview with former Sec. of Defense Jim Baker
    Friday October 6, 2006

    COLMES: You were — during the Reagan/Bush years — known for shuttle diplomacy. That phrase was used a lot. Going back and forth between the Palestinians, between the Israelis.

    BAKER: Yes.

    COLMES: A level of engagement which some have said is not present today. Is this administration engaged enough with the people they should be talking to, to solve the kind of problems you're talking about?

    BAKER: My view is that you don't just talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies, as well. And the diplomacy involves talking to your enemies.
    You don't reward your enemies...

    COLMES: Right.

    BAKER: ... necessarily, by talking to them if you're tough and you know what you're doing. You don't appease them. Talking to an enemy is not, in my view, appeasement.

    I made 15 trips to Syria in 1990-1991 at a time when Syria was on the list of countries who are state sponsors of terrorism. And the 16th trip, guess what? Lo and behold, Syria changed 25 years of policy and agreed for the first time in history to come sit at the table with Israel, which is what Israel wanted at the time. And, thereby, implicitly recognized Israel's right to exist.

    Now, all I'm saying is that would never have happened if we hadn't been sufficiently dedicated that we were going to keep at it. And that's the only...


    COLMES: You deserve a lot of credit for that, and I think the Bush 41 administration does. Is this administration as dedicated to that level of dialogue worldwide, to enable those kinds of relationships.

    BAKER: I think the president gave a magnificent speech in 2002, when he said, "We — I have a vision of a Palestinian state and an Israeli nation living side by side securely in peace." And it would be good if we can get that vision implemented. I think that's what you're asking me.

    Yes, it would be great if we could get that vision implemented. But I'm one who believes that you — I don't think it's appeasement to talk to someone who happens to be an enemy.

  18. #18
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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    The U.S tends to uses Australia as an unofficial go-between in cases such as N.Korea. We maintain diplomatic ties with such countries. In the early 70s there were missions to China by our Labor party which were instrumental in re-establishing relations with the American government. What happens now is in China's hands. We in the West are too tied down in Iraq to have any real say in a military solution, and I suspect that the day for diplomacy may have passed.....
    " Lets blow this fascist popsicle stand!" C.Montgomery Burns

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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    It will be a relatively interesting month for me. I leave at the end of the week to work from my company's China office. This is all a big nerve wracking but since it's China I'm going to and not Japan things should be alright for me.

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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    In my post, I stated that Jim Baker was Secretary of Defense ..... which is obviously wrong. He first served as Chief of Staff to President Reagan and later as his Secretary of the Treasury. In the Bush 41 Presidency, he served as the Secretary of State. I just noticed my earlier misrepresentation and apologize for the error.

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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    While it would be nice for NO-ONE to have nuclear weapons the genie is well and truely out of the bottle. For the US to demand sanctions against North Korea would be a knee jerk action that could and probably would have dire results for everyone concerned.

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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    No one knows yet if the test was a sucess. As for a blockade. That really would not work. All it would do is back Kim Jung Il into a corner, and if he's back into that position he then would have no problem to send troops to the south or start sending missles to Japan.
    As for China the last thing it wants is refuges coming across its border in Liaoning province.

  23. #23
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    Re: Breaking News: N. Korea WMD test successful

    Interesting story from 2003

    THE TWO FACES OF RUMSFELD

    2000: director of a company which wins $200m contract to sell nuclear reactors to North Korea
    2002: declares North Korea a terrorist state, part of the axis of evil and a target for regime change


    Randeep Ramesh
    Friday May 9, 2003
    The Guardian

    Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, sat on the board of a company which three years ago sold two light water nuclear reactors to North Korea - a country he now regards as part of the "axis of evil" and which has been targeted for regime change by Washington because of its efforts to build nuclear weapons.
    Mr Rumsfeld was a non-executive director of ABB, a European engineering giant based in Zurich, when it won a $200m (125m) contract to provide the design and key components for the reactors. The current defence secretary sat on the board from 1990 to 2001, earning $190,000 a year. He left to join the Bush administration.

    The reactor deal was part of President Bill Clinton's policy of persuading the North Korean regime to positively engage with the west.
    The sale of the nuclear technology was a high-profile contract. ABB's then chief executive, Goran Lindahl, visited North Korea in November 1999 to announce ABB's "wide-ranging, long-term cooperation agreement" with the communist government.

    The company also opened an office in the country's capital, Pyongyang, and the deal was signed a year later in 2000. Despite this, Mr Rumsfeld's office said that the defence secretary did not "recall it being brought before the board at any time".

    In a statement to the American magazine Newsweek, his spokeswoman Victoria Clarke said that there "was no vote on this". A spokesman for ABB told the Guardian yesterday that "board members were informed about the project which would deliver systems and equipment for light water reactors".

    Just months after Mr Rumsfeld took office, President George Bush ended the policy of engagement and negotiation pursued by Mr Clinton, saying he did not trust North Korea, and pulled the plug on diplomacy. Pyongyang warned that it would respond by building nuclear missiles. A review of American policy was announced and the bilateral confidence building steps, key to Mr Clinton's policy of detente, halted.

    By January 2002, the Bush administration had placed North Korea in the "axis of evil" alongside Iraq and Iran. If there was any doubt about how the White House felt about North Korea this was dispelled by Mr Bush, who told the Washington Post last year: "I loathe [North Korea's leader] Kim Jong-il."

    The success of campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq have enhanced the status of Mr Rumsfeld in Washington. Two years after leaving ABB, Mr Rumsfeld now considers North Korea a "terrorist regime _ teetering on the verge of collapse" and which is on the verge of becoming a proliferator of nuclear weapons. During a bout of diplomatic activity over Christmas he warned that the US could fight two wars at once - a reference to the forthcoming conflict with Iraq. After Baghdad fell, Mr Rumsfeld said Pyongyang should draw the "appropriate lesson".

    Critics of the administration's bellicose language on North Korea say that the problem was not that Mr Rumsfeld supported the Clinton-inspired diplomacy and the ABB deal but that he did not "speak up against it". "One could draw the conclusion that economic and personal interests took precedent over non-proliferation," said Steve LaMontagne, an analyst with the Centre for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation in Washington.

    Many members of the Bush administration are on record as opposing Mr Clinton's plans, saying that weapons-grade nuclear material could be extracted from the type of light water reactors that ABB sold. Mr Rumsfeld's deputy, Paul Wolfowitz, and the state department's number two diplomat, Richard Armitage, both opposed the deal as did the Republican presidential candidate, Bob Dole, whose campaign Mr Rumsfeld ran and where he also acted as defence adviser.

    One unnamed ABB board director told Fortune magazine that Mr Rumsfeld was involved in lobbying his hawkish friends on behalf of ABB.

    The Clinton package sought to defuse tensions on the Korean peninsula by offering supplies of oil and new light water nuclear reactors in return for access by inspectors to Pyongyang's atomic facilities and a dismantling of its heavy water reactors which produce weapons grade plutonium. Light water reactors are known as "proliferation-resistant" but, in the words of one expert, they are not "proliferation-proof".

    The type of reactors involved in the ABB deal produce plutonium which needs refining before it can be weaponised. One US congressman and critic of the North Korean regime described the reactors as "nuclear bomb factories".

    North Korea expelled the inspectors last year and withdrew from the nuclear non-proliferation treaty in January at about the same time that the Bush administration authorised $3.5m to keep ABB's reactor project going.

    North Korea is thought to have offered to scrap its nuclear facilities and missile pro gramme and to allow international nuclear inspectors into the country. But Pyongyang demanded that security guarantees and aid from the US must come first.

    Mr Bush now insists that he will only negotiate a new deal with Pyongyang after the nuclear programme is scrapped. Washington believes that offering inducements would reward Pyongyang's "blackmail" and encourage other "rogue" states to develop weapons of mass destruction.
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