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  1. #1
    Neat Monster glo-unit's Avatar
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    Ben Stein on Mark Foley

    http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=10434

    Here's and interesting editorial I found on Mark Foley

    Hypocrisy, Democrat Style
    By Ben SteinPublished 10/2/2006 1:12:08 AM

    If there were an Academy Award for Hypocrisy, the surefire favorite for 2006 would be the Democratic Party. Just two recent items make the decision a virtual certainty:

    The Representative Foley "scandal" is really worthy of a whole book on hypocrisy. On the one hand, we have a poor misguided Republican man who had a romantic thing for young boys. He sent them suggestive e-mail. I agree, that's not great. On the other hand, we have a Democratic party that worships (not likes, WORSHIPS) a man named Bill Clinton who did not send suggestive e-mails as far as we know, but who had a barely legal intern give him oral sex kneeling under his desk in the Oval Office while he talked on the phone to a Congressional Committee Chairman, took great pleasure in putting a cigar in her orifice and then smelling it and tasting it, and having her fellate him when in the sacred seat of power of the world's leading Republic. And the Democrats cheer themselves hoarse for him. His wife has a great shot at being our next President.

    We have a Republican man in Congress who sent e-mails to teenage boys asking them what they were wearing, and an entire party, the Democrats, whose primary constituency, besides the teachers' unions, is homosexual men and lesbian women. I hope it won't come as a surprise to anyone that a big part of male homosexual behavior is interest in young boys. (Take a look at anyone renting Endless Summer next time you are at the video store.)

    Don't get me wrong. My very best friend is gay. I have many gay friends and they are great people. But how the Democrats, the party of gays, can be coming down this hard on a MC who's gay is simply beyond belief. One of my top, favorite congressmen, Barney Frank, is openly gay. Might he say a word in defense of his fellow gay MC right about now? Hmm, I thought not.

    Second, let's look at George Allen. Now, he's a bad guy because he has a Confederate flag. Let's get it straight. To millions of our fellow citizens, this flag has zero to do with racism. It is entirely about respect for a time of unbelievable horror in our society, The Civil War, and respect for men who fought so brilliantly for a cause that was unquestionably -- by decent standards -- a bad cause. Moreover, the stars and bars are a beautiful design and show nothing whatsoever about a person's views about non-whites. No one has suggested that George Allen did anything racist or anti-black in his work in the Senate or as Governor. For him to be judged by what historical relics he owns is pure thought crime.

    But the hypocrisy comes in because the Democrats have as their dean in the Senate an actual former Klansman, Robert Byrd of West Virginia. In my very clear memory, the whole bulk of the senior Democrats routinely called blacks "nigras" and voted against any kind of civil rights laws, right down to anti-lynching laws. And this is the party that presumes to judge a man because he owns a Civil War artifact memorializing incredible American courage? Didn't we just recently have as President a Democrat from Georgia who was inches away from being a segregationist in his early career? And what did his state flag look like when he was governor? And George Allen is being judged by these people?

    Again, for sheer hypocrisy, the winner is: the Democratic Party. Again.

    Interesting, well written, but IMHO completely wrong in every way. Hypocrisy is a politician problem not a specific party problem. As shown here not all gays and democrats, and most importantly the insinuation all homos are near pedos. If it wasn't for his acting I'd nearly hate the guy.
    "It's strange to have a creation out there, a deeply mutated version of yourself, running loose and screwing everything up. I wonder if this is how parents feel." Dexter Morgan

  2. #2
    JUB Addicts turtle's Avatar
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    Re: Ben Stein on Mark Foley

    Quote Originally Posted by glo-unit View Post
    Interesting, well written, but IMHO completely wrong in every way. Hypocrisy is a politician problem not a specific party problem. As shown here not all gays and democrats, and most importantly the insinuation all homos are near pedos. If it wasn't for his acting I'd nearly hate the guy.
    I disagree about hypocrisy not being a specific party problem.

    One party set itself up as the national arbiter of morality.

    One party called itself Christian.

    One party claimed that it would bring family values to government.

    One party claimed fiscal responsibility and championed smaller government.


    -D

    PS - Just how "barely legal" was Monica? 25 was it? Hmm. Just the same as 16 in Stein's eyes, eh?

  3. #3
    JUB Addict pjlikesporn's Avatar
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    Re: Ben Stein on Mark Foley

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    PS - Just how "barely legal" was Monica? 25 was it? Hmm. Just the same as 16 in Stein's eyes, eh?
    Yeah--his first point is insane. Democrats are hypocrites--because these two situations are exactly the same.

    The second point suffers from a similar lack of understanding:
    1) All Dems are gay.
    2) All gays are pedophiles.
    3) How dare those Homo Pederastic Dems come down on a Homo Pederastic GOP!
    That might be hypocrisy if the first two premises amounted to anything, but since they don't, it's just sad partisan rhetoric.

  4. #4
    JUB Addict pjlikesporn's Avatar
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    Re: Ben Stein on Mark Foley

    Quote Originally Posted by glo-unit View Post
    If it wasn't for his acting I'd nearly hate the guy.
    That promo he does for Alaskan salmon is a gem, n'est-ce pas?

  5. #5
    General_Alfie
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    Re: Ben Stein on Mark Foley

    Quote Originally Posted by pjlikesporn View Post
    That promo he does for Alaskan salmon is a gem, n'est-ce pas?
    Ben Stein! Wingnut of the Year back in 1963, wasn't he? Son of Frank N. Stein? A real wingnut loser.

  6. #6
    MattieMich
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    Re: Ben Stein on Mark Foley

    First, Mark Foley has never said he is gay. He's an alcoholic who gives into temptation while on the drink.

    Second, there is no reason for the Dems to defend him as a homosexual. This is not a gay issue, it's an issue of liking to diddle young boys.

    Third, much like the right disregards Keith Olberman for being a "sports guy" with a political opinion, shouldn't we disregard a game show host who plugs eye wash?

  7. #7

    Re: Ben Stein on Mark Foley

    T hat should settle any remaining questions about Ben Steins integrity or intellectual honesty. There is so much obviously wrong with this "editorial" that I don't even want to start dissecting it, but the comparison with Clinton is interesting. Stein can't equate the Clinton and Foley scandals without negating the age difference between Lewinsky and the congressional page. Is he saying that sexual overtures to a 16 year old is ok? Is a sexual affair between two adults the same the same as an affair between a 52 and 16 year old?

    Poor old Ben certainly seems to take particular delight in the details of the Clinton affair, doesn't he?

  8. #8
    General_Alfie
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    Re: Ben Stein on Mark Foley

    Quote Originally Posted by iman View Post
    That should settle any remaining questions about Ben Steins integrity or intellectual honesty. There is so much obviously wrong with this "editorial" that I don't even want to start dissecting it, but the comparison with Clinton is interesting. Stein can't equate the Clinton and Foley scandals without negating the age difference between Lewinsky and the congressional page.

    [...]

    Yeah, it's one of those rare instances where a wingnut article is best left untouched. Well, except for the part of "my best friend is gay" and "my favorite Congressman is Barney Fag"). These people, if you will, are so fucked up that one wonders why they aren't bolted to the floor of a nut house. I suspect they'll REALLY be howling by Friday's Full Moon. a-WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! a-WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

  9. #9
    Keeland
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    Re: Ben Stein on Mark Foley

    Of course it's well-written. Stein was a speechwriter for Richard Nixon. He doesn't only toe the pubbie party line; his connections suggest he writes it.

  10. #10
    JUB Addicts turtle's Avatar
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    Re: Ben Stein on Mark Foley

    Quote Originally Posted by pjlikesporn View Post
    Yeah--his first point is insane. Democrats are hypocrites--because these two situations are exactly the same.
    Now, you are half right and half wrong here.

    The situations are not exactly the same, though they are similar. Democrats did not applaud Clinton's actions, they just thought the Republican response was out of proportion.

    It is very hard to see how a sexual harrassment charge could be laid at Clinton's door. Monica, and adult and no virgin, did the seducing. The worst that can be said about Clinton's actions is that they were stupid. They would have violated the personnel policies of almost any company, but a sexual harrassment suit would never have succeeded against him.

    There was a power differential there, but the dynamic at work was nothing similar to what Foley has done.

    Now, even if Foley's teens were as seductive as hell, he was in a position of trust over them, knowing full well that he was abrogating that responsibility.

    Clinton was not sitting in loco parentis to Monica.

    -D





  11. #11
    JUB Addicts turtle's Avatar
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    Re: Ben Stein on Mark Foley

    Quote Originally Posted by MattieMich View Post
    First, Mark Foley has never said he is gay.
    Maybe you have heard by now.

    Foley made a public statement days ago saying he wanted people to know that he is gay.

    Not that that has anything to do with anything, except the psychological and social aspects of his party's respnse to him over the years and right now.

  12. #12
    axb8000
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    Re: Ben Stein on Mark Foley

    Republicans show how they have no "moral highground" they always speak of when their only excuse for Foley is "but...but... STUBBS!" Who the hell cares about stubbs more than 2 decades later. CLEAN YOUR OWN HOUSE UP and take some responsibility for your actions for once. Only makes the GOP look more pathetic the more they spin this.

  13. #13
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Ben Stein on Mark Foley

    It almost seems like the Mr. Stein is umm, hypocritical. Quite the spin-master, I’d say.


    Foley is described as a “Representative” and “a poor misguided Republican man,” whose only crime [mentioned] is sending “e-mails to teenage boys asking them what they were wearing.” He goes on to explain rather factually [for those who may not already be aware], that “a big part of male homosexual behavior is interest in young boys.” Oh, and before anybody starts suggesting that Stein is not well-informed about all this, he makes note of the fact that “My very best friend is gay. I have many gay friends …” Well, I guess that adds credibility to support his knowledge and compassion.

    So, the next person he talks about is described as “a man named Bill Clinton,” (whose title is not mentioned.) Anyways, this Clinton guy “took great pleasure” with “a barely legal intern” “when in the sacred seat of power of the world's leading Republic.” Oh dear. That’s terrible! Never mind that the intern was in-fact of legal age, but taking pleasure while sitting in a sacred place is unforgivable.

    Next is George Allen. This poor misguided Republican man – oopse that was Foley guy, whom “no one has suggested did anything racist or anti-black in his work in the Senate or as Governor,” is being judged for “owning” an “historical relic” which by-the-way features “a beautiful design and show[s] nothing whatsoever about a person's views about non-whites.” Of course the “relic” was on prominent display in his office while Governor, along with another so-called relic called a noose. Have you ever noticed how a noose also features a beautiful design, as well as demonstrating some extraordinary knot-tying skills – certainly representing a part of our heritage and American courage too, eh?

    Then there’s a Democratic “actual former Klansman, Robert Byrd of West Virginia.” Mind you he isn’t an artificial or simulated former Klansman, but an actual one – Notice how the word “former” becomes a bit discounted when married to the word “actual.” It’s also interesting that the same guy who maintains a “very clear memory” of the name-calling, civil rights struggle, and anti-lynching laws associated with symbols *; such as the Klan, Confederate battle flag, and of course the noose, fails to appreciate how correcting the past sometimes involves putting those things away rather than on-display in the Governor’s office.

    Finally, Stein apparently can’t remember another guy’s name, but reflects that “the sacred seat of power of the world's leading Republic” was recently sat upon by a Democrat from Georgia. ~Or maybe he didn’t actually sit on it, but was “inches away.” Wow – either way, how scary is that?



    * Go here and click the picture of the pretty girl, or click the flag above to learn more about the history of Georgia’s state flag.

    .

  14. #14
    General_Alfie
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    Re: Ben Stein on Mark Foley



    Stein is something of a star over at the so-called "American Spectator," and I think that of itself says just about everything I need to know about that rag's lack of intellectual honesty -- to say nothing of its readers eating that stuff up. I mean, this guy is a pathological liar, a trader in rumor-as-fact, and just an illogical creature -- he's not honest enough to be worth reading.

    It is worth noting how untrustworthy the right's favorite media are. They like Rush and Sean on radio, they love Bill O'Reilly and Fox News, they read trash like this and they only venture to a theater to see God gore by Mel Gibson; they read books by Ann Coulter and they pay homage to David Brooks and William Kristol, their favorite intellectuals. And yet even as they swallow and wallow in these lies, they call the NY Times and the Washington Post biased. Now think about it -- they have little interest in the facts when it comes to their media, but when it comes to legitimate (if occasionally flawed) mainstream media, these wingers are nothing but absolute in their certainty of bias.

    These extremists among us, perhaps a quarter of our population, are deeply flawed, horribly scarred people, and their lack of intellectual integrity is a major worry to me. These people, with their weird politics and strange social concerns, are holding America back: we cannot make progress with these moral misfits and social midgets dragging us down. Progress, though, will be made if in Novembber America tells them at the polls to "Sit down and STFU, Mary."

  15. #15

    Re: Ben Stein on Mark Foley

    I knew that Stein was a Republican but I assumed he was one of those moderate/libertarian Republicans since he has ties to Hollywood and everyone in the entertainment industry seems to be pro-gay. But this really pisses me off. I don't even know where to start.

    Well, first the Democratic party is not the "gay party". The Democratic Party as a party opposes gay marriage just as the GOP, they just don't feel the need to try to rub our noses in it and humilate us with gay marriage bans. And what about gays in the military. Clinton tried yes but he failed and I don't think that many within the Democratic party are losing any sleep over it (don't get me wrong I am not attacking them for this; Clinton did try and I appreciate that but I am just being realistic here). And as for the primary constituents besides teachers unions, what is Stein smoking? What about not only teachers but labor unions in general, the African American community, and the NARAL abortion rights groups in addition to many other. As I have mentioned in another thread gays as a constituency within the Democratic party are very low on the totem pole. Unlike the Republican party, the Democratic party for all of it faults is truly a big tent party.

    And why does Stein assume that if one supports gay rights one is also okay with if not supporitive of 50 some year old men sexually harassing and pursuing 16-year-old boys? And does anyone else find it interesting how Republicans are generally dismissive of the seriousness of Foley's conduct such as Tony Snow calling it "naughty emails" and Stein refering to it as "suggestive emails" from a guy who merely had a "romantic thing for young boys" but then turn around and attack gays for being all pedaophiles/predators. Hey I thought that sexually purusing 16-year-olds was not a big deal? It is clear that Foley's conduct was perfectly fine if not a tad bit creepy when it reflects on the image of the GOP but it is disgusting and repulsive and indicative of the predatory nature of homosexuals as a whole when it can be used to smear gay people. And isn't it interesting that he refers to Lewinsky as being "barely legal" neglecting to mention that his defintion of "barely legal"extended to one's early twenties while also neglecting to mention the ages of the boys in Foley's scandal. He implies that that Lewinsky was dangerously close to being underage but does not mention the ages of the Foley boys who where definately underage (he refers to them as "young boys" and "teenage boys").

    And I know that Republicans hate Clinton for the Lewinsky scandal (or more specifically because he survived it) but what is the relevance? There are serious questions that need to be answered here about not only Foley's conduct but of the alleged inaction of high-ranking Republicans who should have done something. Should the Hastert and company get a free pass because Clinton got caugt with his pants down some eight years ago or because Ted Kennedy didn't save a young girl from drowning some thirty years ago? Republicans are in control which means they have responsibility along with their power and their response to legitmate criticism and investigation should not just be "well this Democrat got his dick sucked by an intern". Grow up and act like leaders.
    I am a Friend of Dorothy (Zbornak)

  16. #16
    OtterJoq
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    Re: Ben Stein on Mark Foley

    When I saw this thread was titled "Ben Stein on Mark Foley," I thought it would be about...

    Oh, never mind.

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