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  1. #1
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    Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Most people here know what site I am talking about. I spent a lot of adolescent years reading through http://www.nifty.org. It is essentially an online porn story collection.

    Anyway, for years I have found myself filtering through most of the stories I come across, particularly with the incest section. They even have sections entitled "Young Friends" (stories about 8-12 year olds having hardcore adult sex where the writer exaggerates how functional a pre-pubescent penis can be) and "Adult Youth" focusing on cross-generational relationships (and you can figure out how that goes).

    What is your impression of this? There are a lot of hot stories on Nifty, but there are also hundreds of stories I personally just can't stomach and click the "back" button as soon as I see "12" or "my 11 year-old son." Do you believe Nifty.org is a haven for disturbed men to write/read about pedophilia? And how come child pornography laws do not apply to this particular adult site? Free speech? If Free Speech, then why is child pornography prosecuted while other 18 and over sites are protected under the 1st Amendment?

  2. #2
    JUB Addict NedNickerson's Avatar
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    My understanding is that technically you can write about it and talk about it, but you can't show it. That's why you can have chat rooms about it, but as soon as you exchange photographs with another person, you're in trouble...

    However, a lot of sites get away with it by posting disclaimers that the models are over age 18, etc. But, to look at some of them, you'd think they just sprouted their first pubic hair this morning...

  3. #3
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    If such is the case, do you believe the law should extend to this kind of material? I mean, just look over some of these stories. Do you feel Nifty is fostering an environment that would encourage child abuse like this?

  4. #4
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    If such is the case, do you believe the law should extend to this kind of material?
    I don't know. Shouldn't we have some evidence that it really does contribute to child abuse before we restrict free speech?

    I've seem those stories and they surprised me also. But they don't involve any real people. They're only words on a screen. And I don't know that they ever become more than that. But I guess if I was a parent, they would make me pretty uncomfortable.

  5. #5
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverrick View Post
    I don't know. Shouldn't we have some evidence that it really does contribute to child abuse before we restrict free speech?
    Grown up men having sex with 5-year-old boys is 'free speech'?

    I used to go there a few years ago when I first found the link here on Jub. Recently, like Just_Believe18, I was constantly clicking the 'back' button.

    To many crimes are hidden under and protected by 'free speech', and Nifty is getting to be another one of them.

  6. #6
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    JB, I agree with you. I've had a lot of fun on that site but I just can't stomach the kinds of stories that you're talking about. And yes, I think it very well may be becoming ped central - if it's not already.

    I'm not an expert on the law, but one doesn't have to be a law expert to rule on good taste.
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  7. #7
    New Possibilities... Riverrick's Avatar
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    To many crimes are hidden under and protected by 'free speech', and Nifty is getting to be another one of them.
    What exactly is the crime? If you put your imaginary thoughts down on a piece of paper, that's a crime?

    This is like junk science where things that sound like they may be true are given equal footing with things that are proven true.

  8. #8
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    I agree. Any depiction of sex with children is sick. If an adult man can't build a relationship with another adult, he is a sicko. I can tolerate many things but pedophilia is not one of them. However, I believe it is free speech to write fiction about it.

  9. #9
    Adidasluvr
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    It does breach the law here in NZ and such stories downloaded and saved have formed part of successful prosecutions, though the individual concerned usually have extensive picture & video galleries as well.

    I have read some of the nifty stories that fall within this sphere and they so clearly describe grooming of the child and the move towards sexual behaviour along with the emotional manipulation that I fear they are written by people experienced in such behaviours.

  10. #10
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverrick View Post
    What exactly is the crime? If you put your imaginary thoughts down on a piece of paper, that's a crime?
    .
    Exactly

    Wanting to rob a bank and/or writing about an imaginary scenario of robbing a bank is not the same as larceny.

    Personally, I love Nifty.org's incest section, but only where all cocks involved are adult ones.

    (Yes, I check out the asses on my cousins and uncles)

    As to why anyone would have pedophiliac fantasies, I cannot put myself inside the twisted maze of desire motivations in their heads.

    The Authoritarian section's often hot, too, but sometimes disturbing, because I can't fathom committing oneself to the slave lifestyle for more than a weekend.

  11. #11
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?


    Yes!
    Ban Them!
    Arrest them!
    Close them down!
    Burn them at the stake!
    They're EVIL I tell you! EVIL!!!


    - or -

    We could embrace freedom of speech and thought and make our own choices.

    Don't click on the "Adult/Youth" or "Young Friends" sections at Nifty if you aren't into stories about little kids.

    Don't click on the "Authoritarian" or "Incest" sections if you aren't into stories about spanking or family affairs.

    While you're at it, don't click on the "Sci/Fi" section if getting head from E.T. isn't your cup of tea.

    Lighten up, they're only stories...
    "For your benefit, learn from our tragedy. It is not a written law that the next victims must be Jews."
    ~ ~ ~ Simon Wiesenthal ~ ~ ~

  12. #12
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ned Nickerson View Post
    My understanding is that technically you can write about it and talk about it, but you can't show it. That's why you can have chat rooms about it, but as soon as you exchange photographs with another person, you're in trouble...
    What is illegal (in the US) is the actual use of a child for pornography. However, it is not only legal to talk about it, but one can even "show" it so long as there are no actual children used--that is, virtual porn or whatever. I'm guessing this fine line is going to get more and more controversial as technology improves.

    Personally, I think it's pretty revolting, but I'm curious if increasing a pedophile's access to virtual child porn would make them less likely to act on their impulses against real children. Or would it simply increase their affinity to children? Probably a question better left to psychologists, etc.

  13. #13
    elvin1
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    I'm not even going in that site...I don't know what I'm going to find. But from the responses I'm just going to say that it's disgusting if someone is writing about having sex with a child.
    Sex with kids is unforgivable to me.

  14. #14

    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    If such is the case, do you believe the law should extend to this kind of material? I mean, just look over some of these stories. Do you feel Nifty is fostering an environment that would encourage child abuse like this?
    Good question. Under federal law child pornography is defined as visual depiction of minors. As I understand, written child pornography is not part of the standard legal definition (Any lawyers here?). Other countries include written material in the definition of child pornography though. New Zealand seems to be an example based on adidas4boyspunk post.

    The distinction between fiction and reality, freedom of thought and free speech are some of the arguments used to defend the right to access and share written accounts. Personally, I have some concerns about the consequences of written child pornography. Iīd like to know more about the scientific evidence available regarding the exposure to written child pornography in the case of diagnosed pedophiles. The assumption so far is that fiction/fantasies are different from reality. We all have fantasies and those are just mere thoughts not concrete actions. Is it the same in the case of those diagnosed as pedophiles? Do pedophiles handle the distinction between fantasy and reality as effectively as non-pedophiles? How helpful is for a pedophile to share rape fantasies (outside supervised treatment or a clinical space)? Are those fantasies neutral for the mental health and prognosis of pedophiles??

    Internet provides opportunities for networking and access to written pornography raise some questions. Putting your imaginary thoughts on paper is not a crime per se but what happens if a website acts as a reinforcer/facilitator of behaviors? Are we, as a society, providing conditions that reinforce pedophilia in some degree? Is the exchange of written child pornography a recommended measure for the mental health of pedophiles? Is sharing pedophile thoughts via written accounts neutral??

    Some additional restrictions should be discussed based on the scientific evidence available (We have to keep in mind that the reported success rate of pedophilia is very low and for that reason the discussion of potential reinforcers seems critical). It might be interesting to know the experience of countries that have regulations against written child pornography.

  15. #15
    Chance1826
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Okay...nifty.org...is repulsive...to say the least!

    They should take that site off the net!

  16. #16
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    First up - look, guys, nifty has many sections. There is a section full of younger stories, but it's not the only section. No point in banning the whole site because of one dubious corner, is there?

    Secondly - the thing is, though, if child pornography can't be written about, where is the line drawn? Could we talk in here about the first time we had an orgasm as kids, or would that become child porn? I know the mods get concerned when someone uses a picture of himself taken when he was a kid as an avatar because JUB is an adult site. I just wonder exactly what might be or not be allowed to even crack a mention - all those posts from JUBbers about touching a friend's bits and pieces when they were both 14 or whatever... we don't want to find ourselves suddenly all becoming sex offenders because we said we started to j/o at 13, do we?

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  17. #17
    Chance1826
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    ^You have point about us talking about our childhood experiences....So We do have to draw a line...but where?

  18. #18
    I'm still feakin here 1gayguy's Avatar
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    I read stories on Nifty everyday. I choose not to read stories in several catagories. Those being Adult/youth, Athority(sp) and Urination. I do read stories in the Young friends section however. I try to find stories in there that remind of my own youth.
    I stick mostly with Adult Friends, Beginnings, College, High School and Young Friends.These catagories are all in the gay section. They have other section such as Bisexual, Lesbian, Beastiality and Transgendered.
    I choose not to read stories in catagories that don't interest me.
    If one is offended by stories in some of the catagories , don't read them. Do the stories cause people to act on thoughts they may have? Who knows.
    I don't believe the whole site should be shut down because of a catagory of stories that some find offensive.
    Just my two cents
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  19. #19
    Nightmare
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_Man_007 View Post
    Exactly

    Wanting to rob a bank and/or writing about an imaginary scenario of robbing a bank is not the same as larceny.
    But, it seems like the internet is coming to this, the recent school shooting, the kid apparently had all sorts of hate messages and stuff on his myspace page or whatever. The columbine kids had a site dedicated to their plan and what they were going to do. (unless that site is fake)

    Not to say all these stories would make people go out there and do these things with the younger youth, but it's a really taboo subject to be writing about sexual intercourse with younger children.

    When people write stories, especially erotica ones, don't you think they usually write a story about something that attracts them?

    (I don't think they should have to shut down the whole site because of this,though.)

  20. #20
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    It is fiction. If you don't like it, don't read it.

    There is a massive difference between a made up story and pictures showing children in sexual acts.
    and it hurts with every heartbeat......



  21. #21
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Still though it does cross a line, while i completley disagree with the storys we are discussing all the ones i have read so far are about adult men . The moderaters of nifty should delete any stories that feture people below the age of 18

  22. #22
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussieguy01 View Post
    The moderaters of nifty should delete any stories that feture people below the age of 18
    people below the age of 18 have sex. people fantasize about things that they would never actually do.

    people should not to be told what they can and can't write about or what they can read. we are censored enough as it is.
    and it hurts with every heartbeat......



  23. #23
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverrick View Post
    What exactly is the crime? If you put your imaginary thoughts down on a piece of paper, that's a crime?
    First of all, 'Freedom of Speech' as is often talked about here is American Freedom of Speech. Other countries have less freedoms. Canada has laws against writing and talking about hatred (i.e. Rev. Phelps). Many Americans see this as censorship, but it keeps the KKK and the Neo-Nazis from wandering the streets and protects me and other gays from having to listen to the insane rantings of people like Fred Phelps.

    If writing about pedophilia isn't such a big deal, why is JUB so worried about it in the Story Forum and throughout the rest of the forum? Even talking about someone who is under 18 falls under very serious scrutiny and posting pictures is a supreme 'no-no'. Remember the little guy in the grey Speedo?

    I wrote a story in the Story Forum in which the abuse and molestation of a young teen was vital to the story. I had to clear it with JUB before I could post it, and the only way I got away with it was that I did not glamourize it, nor did I condone it. Yet, that little story with a few lines about under-aged sex could have caused JUB some very serious legal problems.

    The difference in Nifty is that the children are consenting to have sex with adults and, in many cases from those I have seen, have actually instigated it. Children are naturally curious, but they have no sex drive. They're not about to instigate something they know nothing about, and they're certainly not going to be able to do all the things that are written.

    Using the argument that writing about robbing banks is a 'cop out' and is one example out of many which have been used over and over again in arguments about protecting the Freedom of Speech.

    In 1993, a book called 'Hit Man', printed by Paladin Press, came under fire when its step-by-step 'How To' was used to murder a mother and her disabled son and his nurse. The murderer, hired by the estranged father who needed his son's disabled money, followed the 'Hit Man' book to commit the murder.

    Paladin Press came under fire and was sued. Their argument was that they never had any intention of anyone ever actually using the book to commit murder. Their argument was that publishers who publish cook books never expect people to actually cook the meals. Perhaps not, but cook books are written for people who want to cook meals. 'Hit Man' was written for people who want to kill people and not get caught.

    http://www.capital.net/~phuston/HITMAN3.html

    Pedophilia is a crime. Claiming it as 'fiction' and, therefore, protected under Freedom of Speech is ridiculus. Timothy McVeigh built his bombs from 'How To' instruction which I believe he either found on the net or in books. He killed a few hundred people, including some children. How many thousands of children are killed or traumatized each year by pedophiles? Protecting it under 'Free Speech' is legalizing the crime.

  24. #24
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    ^I hear you, GSDX. I wonder what might happen if the method of the crime is detailed in a newspaper report and someone copycats it - could the newspaper be sued? Scary if it can...

    As I said with my post, though, where can a line be drawn if we are just talking about what we did as kids when we all under-age? I don't want to just be chatting to my mates at dinner or something and be hauled off by the cops!

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  25. #25
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    ^I hear you, GSDX. I wonder what might happen if the method of the crime is detailed in a newspaper report and someone copycats it - could the newspaper be sued? Scary if it can...
    That is a bit different. The newspapers had nothing whatsoever to do with the original crime. They merely reported it.

    In the case of 'Hit Man', the book was commissioned by Paladin Press. They weren't reporting anything. They were giving people the means to commit the perfect crime. To say that they never intended anyone to actually buy the book and follow the instructions is ludicrous.

    It is my understanding that the KKK or the Neo-Nazis can gather on street corners in the United States and spout all the hatred they want against other Americans and it is protected under Free Speech. They can stand there in their white sheets and hoods, or in their uniforms with their hands raised in the 'Heil' salute and carry placards with the words "Kill All Niggers!" or "Kill All Jews!" (my apologies for those disgusting words, but they are necessary to make my point) and get away with it because they are not really out there killing Jews or Blacks. They hide not only under Freedom of Speech, but Freedom of Religion as well. They mock everything America stands for, and it's their Constitutional right to do so.

    Child pornography is a crime. Having sex with children is a crime. Nifty is filled with hundreds of such stories, catering to the thousands of pedophiles who are sitting at their keyboard blasting load after load whilst reading them. But, since they are only a fictional story, it is protected under Free Speech. That's like the United States handing Jeffrey Dahmer a new set of carving knives and telling him, "Have fun, Jeff. Just don't get caught."

  26. #26
    JUB Addict pjlikesporn's Avatar
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    Pedophilia is a crime. Claiming it as 'fiction' and, therefore, protected under Freedom of Speech is ridiculus. Timothy McVeigh built his bombs from 'How To' instruction which I believe he either found on the net or in books. He killed a few hundred people, including some children. How many thousands of children are killed or traumatized each year by pedophiles? Protecting it under 'Free Speech' is legalizing the crime.
    This would be a better analogy if we were talking about pedophiles publishing stories like "10 Ways To Pick Up Kids" or something. Here, you miss some issues. First, the stories are fiction; to compare authoring a story to molesting a child might be disproportionate.

    Second, you seem to miss the benefits that American freedom of speech does provide. The US has seen some scary concentration of power. Our president has usurped a great deal of power much of which our legislature has simply ceded to him. In many ways, it's nice to see how robust our freedom of speech doctrine is. If simply banning stories involving children is the solution to a pedophilia problem, what other problems does it raise? What else can people not write about? Are people allowed to think about pedophilia? Controlling what people can talk about comes dangerously close to controlling what they can think about--and in our current political situation, that is frightening indeed.

    I genuinely thought your proposal was thoughtful and well-reasoned. However, I think you might miss some of the complexities of how freedom of speech fits into our system.

  27. #27
    hornymikey
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    i dunno about free speech... i just know that its sick to even think about 8yo having sex...

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverrick View Post
    I don't know. Shouldn't we have some evidence that it really does contribute to child abuse before we restrict free speech?

    I've seem those stories and they surprised me also. But they don't involve any real people. They're only words on a screen. And I don't know that they ever become more than that. But I guess if I was a parent, they would make me pretty uncomfortable.

  28. #28
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by pjlikesporn View Post
    This would be a better analogy if we were talking about pedophiles publishing stories like "10 Ways To Pick Up Kids" or something. Here, you miss some issues. First, the stories are fiction; to compare authoring a story to molesting a child might be disproportionate.
    I understand what you're saying, but there is a big difference between writing a story and writing a 'How To' book.

    I could write a fictional story about a 40-year-old man and a 12-year-old boy. However, I could never write a book about how to pick up those 12-year-olds in the first place any more than I could write a book about rebuilding the engine of a '58 Ford. I simply don't know how either of them are done. In order to write books like that, the authors must know how to do it. In the case of "10 Ways To Pick Up Kids", the author is condoning and promoting his crimes and teaching others how to follow in his footsteps.

  29. #29
    JUB Addict pjlikesporn's Avatar
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    I understand what you're saying, but there is a big difference between writing a story and writing a 'How To' book.

    I could write a fictional story about a 40-year-old man and a 12-year-old boy. However, I could never write a book about how to pick up those 12-year-olds in the first place any more than I could write a book about rebuilding the engine of a '58 Ford. I simply don't know how either of them are done. In order to write books like that, the authors must know how to do it. In the case of "10 Ways To Pick Up Kids", the author is condoning and promoting his crimes and teaching others how to follow in his footsteps.
    Wait. Now I'm really confused. My point was entirely that such a difference did exist--that the story should not be criminalized but the "How To" book should be. But in your earlier post (#23, final paragraph), you likened the Nifty sotries to McVeigh's 'how to' books in support for making the former illegal. I wanted to point out that there was a difference.

  30. #30
    elvin1
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Point being is...
    Anyone that writes about having sex with an 8 year old is nothing but a f*cking pervert. I could care less about free speech. It is wrong and it is disgusting. I don't care how romanticized it is or if it is legal (which I doubt). They're not talking about 16, 17, 18 year olds. They are talking about kids under 12.

    That kind of writing instigates pedophiles and let's them think that it's ok. It also reaffirms them that they are not alone and that there are many others that feel the same way or that it's normal.

    To me, writing about it is the same as getting off to a pic of a kid or molesting them.
    Disgusting!

  31. #31

    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    ^I hear you, GSDX. I wonder what might happen if the method of the crime is detailed in a newspaper report and someone copycats it - could the newspaper be sued? Scary if it can...

    As I said with my post, though, where can a line be drawn if we are just talking about what we did as kids when we all under-age? I don't want to just be chatting to my mates at dinner or something and be hauled off by the cops!

    -d-
    Context makes a difference. Itīs not the same to share personal experiences at home than at a bulletin board/website. There is no expectation of privacy in Internet. The original post refers to sharing under-age stories via Internet.

    Restrictions to information are a reality in other areas. Bioterrorism in the US is a good example. There are restrictions in place regarding what can be published in a journal, public forum or Internet. There is no freedom of information regarding bioterrorism in the US. I know what might happen if a group of JUB posters decide to share stories on bioterrorism or provide technical details that facilitate a bioterrorist attack....Government officials wonīt buy the "itīs just fiction" argument. Those restrictions are in place because of fear of potential consequences. Are those limitations to freedom of speech? Yes.

    American society values freedom of speech but some exceptions are in place. The discussion on hate speech or limitations to dissemination of technical information (bioterrorism) are recent examples. Sharing written child pornography via Internet is not neutral. Fantasies are mere thoughts in the mind of an average person. No one forces me to read a story of under-age sex, but the mind of a pedophile is slightly different. Those Internet stories are not part of a treatment strategy. A diagnosed pedophile can share thoughts and fantasies as part of treatment in a supervised clinical setting. A different story is to publish under-age stories to an unknown audience in Internet.

  32. #32
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by pjlikesporn View Post
    Wait. Now I'm really confused.
    That's why I said "I understand what you're saying." I got distracted, though, and forgot to mention that the 'How To' books on picking up kids is no different than the stories in Nifty. They are showing the readers how to seduce and have sex with kids.

    My apologies for your confusion. My train-of-thought became derailed.

  33. #33
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Okay, let's cut thru the treacle here.

    Nobody goes on Nifty to 'exercise their right to free speech', they go there
    to exercise their dicks.

    I'm not going to be a hypocrite about it, I've done the same thing. Although,
    it's literally been years ago. (Why read when there's so much video available ? I'm just sayin'...)

    But back to the point. There have always been categories on that site that
    totally gross me out. (Beastiality comes to mind) I mean, I can't even imagine that people get off reading about that sort of thing, but apparently they do. But, does this mean that they start crusing the humane society looking for a little Lab on Retriever action ? Of course not.

    Now, I'm certainly not comparing animals to young children, but there is a
    commonality in play here. That is, fantasy vs. reality. There are still plenty of people out there that condemn ALL forms of pornography, from Playboy on down, their main complaint being that men reading such smut increases the likelyhood that they are going to go out and rape and pillage in a hormone induced rage.

    Most guys know that the opposite is usually true. We're not going to 'rape and pillage', we're going to jack off and maybe take a nap afterwards. So,
    it could be argued that the 'self-release' of tension actually decreases the
    number of sexual crimes, instead of the other way around.

    Either way, disgusting and disturbing as some of the stories on Nifty can be, I doubt they put any thoughts in the readers' mind that weren't there in the first place. Hopefully, all Nifty is fostering is a fantasy life in the people whose minds drift in that direction, and just maybe it's keeping them at bay, rather then helping them act it out in real life.



  34. #34
    van-ee
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    It validates wrong and abnormal behaviour as right and normal behaviour. It is wrong and should be condemned.It promotes and appeases abnormal behaviour.

  35. #35
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Wow, you guys have a lot of great opinions on this matter from both sides of the aisle.

    Personally, I'm the type who isn't big on censorship and strongly believe in freedom of speech. But I am concerned about the community that Nifty.org is fostering to. If you notice, a lot of guys leave their e-mail addresses and encourage other men who "like what they read" to contact them. Could Nifty be playing host to the underground community of pedophilia, where these men publically post their stories and then gain access to other men who share their interests? For example, with a community of men and e-mail addresses of 8-12 year-old stories floating around, how do we know pictures or even videos aren't being sent?

    But I agree with dissenters of "where do we draw the line?" What is the erotic story writable "age limit?" Is it 18? 16? 14? What if it describes a high school re-enactment of one's own experimentation? Does the author become a pedophile? These are tough questions. The site has a lot of great, legal-minded stories, but it certainly openly caters to pedophilia. The warning signs are there, so how much abuse has Nifty.org encouraged beyond fantasy?

  36. #36
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    killing and eating people is vile, abnormal, disgusting and illegal. yet silence of the lambs was a book and oscar winning film.
    and it hurts with every heartbeat......



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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    But the theme of the novel wasn't about glorifying cannibalism, but using it as a literary device to drive the plot.

    Legally, there are distinctions about how content is used. For example, a photographer's image of a naked man can be sanctioned by law as Art. However, a naked man on a site like corbinfisher.com is viewed as pornography. The distinction is the purpose of content. While the photographer is using his model for a center piece in his portfolio, the pornographer is using his model as a means for erotic gratification.

    Likewise, if a novel wrote about child abuse as a literary device to drive the story's plot, thats ok. But in Nifty.org's case, child abuse is being written about for the purpose of masterbation, and fulfilling imaginative fantasies the offender wishes he could experience.

  38. #38
    The_Pianist
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by sb View Post
    killing and eating people is vile, abnormal, disgusting and illegal. yet silence of the lambs was a book and oscar winning film.
    One could say there isn't an internationally organized group of people advocating and promoting this type of behaviour.

  39. #39

    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Pianist View Post
    One could say there isn't an internationally organized group of people advocating and promoting this type of behaviour.
    There was, but they organized a convention at a Holiday Inn and the caterer never showed up.

    Har, har!

  40. #40
    Adidasluvr
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    If you notice, a lot of guys leave their e-mail addresses and encourage other men who "like what they read" to contact them. Could Nifty be playing host to the underground community of pedophilia, where these men publically post their stories and then gain access to other men who share their interests? For example, with a community of men and e-mail addresses of 8-12 year-old stories floating around, how do we know pictures or even videos aren't being sent?
    I have little doubt that that is what is happening.

  41. #41
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    "Heavy metal music forced teens to commit suicide"..... "Zoloft made a teen kill his grandparents"....."Graphic violence in video games promotes lethal torture"....

    What people overlook when they buy the litigious "Devil made me do it" scapegoat is that the perps were MAJORLY FUCKED-UP INDIVIDUALS acting on their own MAJORLY FUCKED-UP free will, with or without an external influence.

    How many of us are often exposed to video and still photos of nude female bodies contorted every which way in the heat of passionate sex, or sprawling legs wide open while fingering their throbbing pink clitorises?

    Those images do not make me want to pick up a big-titted whore at a str8 bar, rip her clothes off and lick her juicy cunt until she screams for my hot dick to thrust into her real good.

    (How many just said, "EW!" ? I just said it, many times while writing that.)

    As to the whole Columbine massacre, it can be traced to a number of factors, and suggestive content from the internet is a far stretch.

    If I had access to assault weapons in 8th grade, I would have been on the edge of gunning down a cafeteria full of bullies myself.

    My parents were the kind, though, who were attentive enough to spot the overt signs of anti-social pathology, well before I could have walked out of the house one morning with a 10-shot rifle under a trenchcoat .

    Plus, I was the kind of adolescent INDIVIDUAL who could see far enough ahead to reason out the consequences of a homicidal rampage.

    Thanks to Columbine publicity, many high schools now have zero tolerance policies on bullying

    Pedophilia has been around since ancient Greece, and child sex trafficking operates today, both without the help of online fiction.

    It may be shocking to learn allegations that Republican moguls among the Bohemian Grove, and military officials, have been involved in such abusive horrors, formerly with the collaboration of a Nebraska Boys Town facility which supplied children for prostitution, porn films, and MK-ULTRA brainwash victims.

    (Search the terms "The Franklin Cover-Up", "Johnny Gosch", "Paul Bonacci", "Lawrence King", "Michael Aquino")


    Though some of the fictional Nifty.org stories are still very disgusting, NONE of them compare to a lot of real-life horrors that are way over the line of any sane person.

    Some ppl may get off on BDSM fiction, or visit a dungeon sex club on a regular basis, or even adopt the lifestyle full time with a consenting partner.

    Internet or not, it is one FUCKED UP SOLDIER, though, who would cage up random foreign men and dehumanize them with broomstick sodomy before piling their nude bodies up for sport photos.

  42. #42
    Sex God Green_Man_007's Avatar
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by sb View Post
    killing and eating people is vile, abnormal, disgusting and illegal. yet silence of the lambs was a book and oscar winning film.
    Though I'm a fan of sci-fi thrillers involving supernatural and alien creatures, I can't deal with watching anything to do with Hannibal Lector, polygamist cult leaders, Richard Perle, rapist crewmen on the Battlestar Pegasus, or any type of human characters who exhibit non-human capacity for evil.

  43. #43

    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    First time actually replying to a thread .... but let me just get this out. I might be completely off base.

    The stories on the Nifty Archive are made up. Not real. At all.

    People have a wide range of sexual fantasies, ranging from the common to the unbelievably deviant.

    I just find it sort of ridiculous when people get on a moral high horse. Sex with kids is illegal, plain and simple, because they are not sexually mature and cannot give consent. We all agree on that.

    But if you write a story involving an older man and a younger boy, it seems to me that it can be more about the power dynamic between the two. Of course, when someone writes about a personal fantasy where they are actually the ones anally assaulting the paper boy, it think it falls more into the category of ... well ... wow, the author probably really wants to get with the paper boy.

    My point is that if you look at the Adult/Youth category in the Nifty archive ... it's like ... ridiculously huge. Given the statistics of actual pedophilia diagnosed in the States right now ... I find it hard to believe that only the pedophiles are getting off to these stories. Meaning that it could be your best friend. Or that creepy guy in the corner cubicle. Or you. Fact is, you probably wouldn't admit it if you did get off to them if you did.

    Like I said ... I might be completely off base. I certainly don't get the attraction one could have for an eight year old .... but then again, I don't get the appeal of someone shitting on someone else's face.

    Takes all kinds, I guess. As long as no one is getting hurt, and ACTUAL, flesh-and-blood children aren't being exploited ... leave it as it is. It IS just a story.

  44. #44
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    They even have sections entitled "Young Friends" (stories about 8-12 year olds having hardcore adult sex where the writer exaggerates how functional a pre-pubescent penis can be) and "Adult Youth" focusing on cross-generational relationships (and you can figure out how that goes).

    What is your impression of this? There are a lot of hot stories on Nifty, but there are also hundreds of stories I personally just can't stomach and click the "back" button as soon as I see "12" or "my 11 year-old son." Do you believe Nifty.org is a haven for disturbed men to write/read about pedophilia?
    Quote Originally Posted by xsuperboy View Post
    I just find it sort of ridiculous when people get on a moral high horse.
    I don't think any of us are 'on a moral high horse'. We are simply responding to the original question as quoted above.

  45. #45
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Ask sex therapists, and get a load of different answers on this.
    Some will tell you that there are pedophiles who are satisfied with stories and fantasies, so a site providing those is actually helping keep children safe... from those few, anyway. But ask others, and they will tell you that fantasizing about something inherently lowers the barriers to actually performing the act(s), that in essence (ask a sports coach!) imagining doing something, being excited about it, is actually practicing that action, preparing for it, becoming primed to do it.

    Is it free speech? Of course!
    Is it responsible speech? Uh... that comes down to each individual case. If indeed for some people getting off to the fantasy relieves the urge for some people and thus they never engage in the actual behavior, then Nifty is providing a public service (however distasteful to some). If indeed for many or most the fantasy only reinforces the tendency or desire to abuse children, then Nifty is causing a public nuisance, or something like that.

    Personally, I never go to such sites. Now that I know the name, I'll avoid it. I avoid pictues of "models" who though certified at least eighteen look, as someone said, like they just sprouted their first pubic hairs. I avoid pictures of shaved genitals, because the only reason I can see for that is to make them look like little boys.
    Do I avoid them because such pictures tempt me?
    The answer is "yes", but not in the way you might think: they tempt me to be a vigilante. They make me want to go knock on the door of a man in this town who has over three hundred times committed sexual assault on boys under 12, with my 12-gauge in hand and a can of gasoline. They make me want to poison the legislators who pass "we're doing something" laws that confuse things to the point of letting such men as that local one live on the street, while sending an 18-y.o. boy to priosn for having sex with his 17-y.o. bf. And they make me think that there are a lot of politicians who ought to be rounded up and sent walking to China, on the sea bottom, because they spout slogans while doing nothing except persecuting responsible adults who just don't fit their moral spectrum.

    End of rant... but even on a normal day, I think we should bring back the guillotine for producers of child porn, because to produce it they have to molest and abuse children.

    As for Nifty... I'll stay away -- and it wouldn't hurt for someone to make a Wiki article describing just exactly what they do!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  46. #46
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    I think with a site like Nifty, there is always the danger that because there are stories involving minors published on the same site as legitimate stories involving adults, some people are going to take it as condoning sex with minors. I have always felt uncomfortable with some aspects of Nifty, and more recently with some other sites which have the 2257 disclaimer, but seem to have more and more images that are extremely disconcerting. I have always had an attraction for late teens - late twenties, but there are now several sites that I no longer visit - including perfectly respectable ones purely because so many models are shaved to within an inch of their life to look younger.

    This has happened gradually over the years for this to become mainstream, but I really do worry where this is taking us in the future.

    As for freedom of speech and expression, I'm all for it, but not when it involves manipulating minors, or providing material - written or visual - to feed paedophile's thoughts.

  47. #47
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post

    As for Nifty... I'll stay away -- and it wouldn't hurt for someone to make a Wiki article describing just exactly what they do!
    Exactly what they do is host stories produced by amateur writers in a variety of different themes, subdivided specifically into gay, bisexual, lesbian and transgendered as main categories with further subcategories, one or two of which may be regarded as dubious by some people.

    I urge everyone to approach this topic calmly before tarring the entire Nifty organisation and all its contributors and followers with the same sweepingly general brush. No point in cutting off your entire lower torso and legs because you've stubbed a toe, is there?

    -d-
    Members: [insert appropriate/relevant wise saying or deep thought here]
    Thank you.


    I hope you get this message.
    Comments welcome.

  48. #48
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    I enjoy the stories involving incest, and so do many others. But I rarely go there anymore to read the stories because I must wade through dozens of links to find a story which doesn't involve a father having sex with his little boys. If a father and his college-aged son get together, that's great, but those stories are very few indeed.

    There are some 'coming-of-age' stories involving teens, but they are still far outnumbered by the stories involving children.

    I think the things that bothers me most about those stories is that they put the children in impossible situations and have them do things which they are not physically able to do. They also make the children much more mature than they should be. There is no 'innocence lost', because there was no innocence to begin with. Boys who are raped suffer no ill effects. Instead, they love it and go out looking for more from Dad's 'beer buddies', and Dad sits back and watches. They become maniacs for sex with grown men.

    The only people who get turned on by stories like these are pedophiles, and, judging from the number of stories, there are a whole lot of pedophiles visiting there every day to get their daily dose of little-boy sex.

    That sort of stuff is illegal on the news stands. Why is it legal on the internet?

  49. #49
    JUB Addict fuzzy64's Avatar
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    its really simple.....


    If the subject matter offends you, then don't click on the link, nobody is forcing you to read the specific stories. I have been reading the stories on Nifty for secveral years now, never had a problem with it, even though those links have always been there.

  50. #50
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    Re: Nifty.org - Pedophilia Central?

    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzy64 View Post
    its really simple.....


    If the subject matter offends you, then don't click on the link, nobody is forcing you to read the specific stories. I have been reading the stories on Nifty for secveral years now, never had a problem with it, even though those links have always been there.
    That is really simple--so long as the only thing we're concerned about is our own sensibilities. All of us on this forum are, by rule, over age 18, and so there's no danger of any of us being subject to pedophilia.

    However, the question dealt with the larger problem of how these sites interact with or even encourage pedophilia. In order to combat pedophilia, we need to understand its roots, causes, and mindset to determine the best ways of curbing it and protecting children. If such threads do indeed contribute to pedophilia--and that issue is a big part of this thread--simply ignoring those sites or the offensive threads within them does little to solve the problem.

    I'm all for live-and-let-live but only when the person we're talking about is mature enough to make decisions about things that can potentially cause them great harm.

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