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  1. #1
    Sex God Brad's Avatar
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    Re: Opposition to Wal-Mart

    Wal-Mart is a big nasty fish that has depleated the ocean of other fish more paletable. I shop at wal-mart because it's pretty much all that's left to me. I shop there more often than I should need to because the shit I buy there breaks, wears out, or just plain doesn't work more than when I shop else where. They have put as many people out of work as they have put to work. I miss the retail America of my childhood. My mom really did know the owners of the places she shopped and they cared to see her and talk to her. What do I get? The under paid, ancient Wal-mart greeter who also misses the places he or she used to shop.
    "I'm not ready to make nice. I'm not ready to back down." Dixie Chics

  2. #2
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    Re: Opposition to Wal-Mart

    It's good to be the king! But for the rest of us, why don't we all just sing along ......

    Sixteen Tons
    by Tennessee Ernie Ford

    Some people say a man is made outta mud
    A poor man's made outta muscle and blood
    Muscle and blood and skin and bones
    A mind that's a-weak and a back that's strong

    You load sixteen tons, what do you get?
    Another day older and deeper in debt
    Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
    I owe my soul to the company store

  3. #3

    Re: Opposition to Wal-Mart

    Quote Originally Posted by ICO7 View Post
    The key thing from the article, that which I've stated helps more than raising the minimum wage EVER will, is this: "Here is a company that unquestionably increases the purchasing power of the poor, thus improving the poor’s standard of living...Nominal wages are 2.2% lower, but given that consumer prices are 3.1% lower, real disposable income is 0.9% higher than it would have been in a world without Wal-Mart."
    Oh, dem lucky po folk! As long as they only buy crap from Wal-Mart they're going to be ahead of the game. Of course if they want to buy medical or dental care, or buy a house, or pay rent, they're screwed.

    Wouldn't the opposite of Wal-Mart logic also work. If they paid higher wages and benefits and charged comparable higher prices the employees could still buy at Wal-Mart but also afford a few of the necessities of life?

    I don't hate Wal-Mart, I think it's a pretty interesting company which is slowly evolving. What they should get credit for, and has not been mentioned is their huge buying power which forces down the cost of merchandise. They are also experimenting with walk-in Medical Clinics in some of their big box stores.

  4. #4

    Re: Opposition to Wal-Mart

    I don't shop at WalMart.
    I also don't dine at the "chain" restaurants.
    WalMarts prices might be lower, but they underpay their employees while Sam Waltons heirs are getting obscenely rich.
    I prefer the "Mom & Pop" restaurants too. The food isn't all shipped in from a central distributor frozen in precisely measured packages and warmed up.
    I've mentioned that I spend a month each Spring in Italy with a childhood friend and his family. They live in a vey small town without supermarkets and restaurant chains. He's a heavy sleeper and frequently I go shopping in the morning with his wife. There is a separate cheese store, fish market, green grocer, bread bakery, butcher etc., with different fresh choices every day. Nothing like the prepackaged, chemically treated crap we get here.
    I prefer the individuality of choice and not a monopolized choke hold by the big guys.

  5. #5

    Re: Opposition to Wal-Mart

    Some people who shop at Wal-Mart are shopping there because there is no other alternative for them. Wal-Mart has totally obliertated local shops and groceries in areas, especially rural towns. It's a known fact that once competition is gone from an area around Wal-Mart, they jack up their prices and leave the customers hanging. Plus we all know that most employees that work in Wal-Mart are below or on the poverty line. It's sickening coming from a corporation that is supposed to be rich and profitable.

    And I don't buy that crap that Wal-Mart is improving the life of the poor either. If anything they're the ones using the poor and taking advatage of them.

    Luckly I live in a city where there are alot of other local shops and places I can go to. It may cost a bit more, but at least I know my money is going to a local business and not some fraud of a corporation.

  6. #6

    Re: Opposition to Wal-Mart

    ^I have noticed that every time someone disagrees with you, you simply state that they are wrong and ignorant. I know libertarians don't share their money with anyone, but are you equally stingy with your lofty understanding of these issues? We all seek enlightenment.

  7. #7
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    Re: Opposition to Wal-Mart

    A lot of people pick on Wal-Mart, but I honestly don't see what makes them so different from other department stores. Wal-Mart just happens to be one of the bigger ones.

  8. #8
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    Re: Opposition to Wal-Mart

    Maybe one of the reasons that this topic has come up, is because once again it's an election year. Witness todays Op-Ed piece in the Dallas Morning News.


    Sebastian Mallaby: So now Democrats have decided they hate Wal-Mart Too bad the big box actually helps low-income families


    07:31 AM CDT on Wednesday, August 30, 2006



    Once upon a time, smart Democrats defended globalization, open trade and the companies that thrive within this system. They were wary of tethering themselves to an anti-trade labor movement that represents a dwindling fraction of the electorate. They understood the danger in bashing corporations: Voters don't hate corporations, because many of them work for one.
    Then dot-bombs and Enron punctured corporate America's prestige, and Democrats bolted. Rather than hammer legitimately on real instances of corporate malfeasance – accounting scandals, out-of-control executive compensation and the like – Democrats swallowed the whole anti-corporate playbook.
    To see the difference between then and now, just look at the Clintons. In the late 1980s and early 1990s, Hillary Clinton sat on Wal-Mart's board; and when Sam Walton died in 1992, Bill Clinton lauded him as "a wonderful family man and one of the greatest citizens in the history of the state of Arkansas."
    Times change. Last year Mrs. Clinton returned a campaign contribution from Wal-Mart, even though she had no compunction in banking a check from Jerry Springer. The nation's most successful retailer, which has seized the opportunities created by globalization to boost the buying power of ordinary Americans, is now seen as too toxic to touch. But a trash-talking TV host is acceptable.
    Mrs. Clinton is not alone in this. The stiff-necked Joe Lieberman, who holds fast to his principles on the Iraq war, recently abandoned his centrist economic credentials by appearing at an anti-Wal-Mart rally. No matter that Mr. Lieberman once served as chairman of the business-friendly Democratic Leadership Council. Now he proclaims his determination "to wake up Wal-Mart and say, 'Treat your workers fairly.' "
    After Mr. Lieberman, a senator from Connecticut, stepped down as chairman of the DLC, he was succeeded by Sen. Evan Bayh of Indiana. Well, Mr. Bayh recently showed up at an anti-Wal-Mart rally, too, as has Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack, who is the current DLC chairman.
    The Wake Up Wal-Mart campaign bus, which is trundling across the country on a 35-day tour, ensnares prominent Democrats in almost every state it passes through.
    How can supposedly centrist Democrats defend this betrayal of their principles? Some claim that their beliefs are consistent but that the company has changed: The Wal-Mart of the early 1990s mainly bought American, whereas today's irresponsible monster buys cheap stuff from China.
    But this argument merely illustrates how far Democrats have come. Since when did the party's centrists believe that trading with China is evil? It was the Clinton administration that brought China into the World Trade Organization.
    Mrs. Clinton and Sen. John Kerry have attacked Wal-Mart for offering health coverage to too few workers. But Mr. Kerry's former economic adviser, Jason Furman of New York University, concluded in a paper last year that Wal-Mart's health benefits are about as generous as those of comparable employers. Moreover, the two senators know perfectly well that market pressures limit the health coverage that companies can provide.
    The truth is that none of these Democrats can resist dumb economic populism. Even though we are not in a recession, and even though the presidential primaries are more than a year away, the DLC crowd is pandering shamelessly to the left of the party – perhaps in the knowledge that the grocery workers union, which launched the anti-Wal-Mart campaign, is strong in the key state of Iowa.
    It gets worse. According to a paper for the National Bureau of Economic Research by Jerry Hausman and Ephraim Leibtag, neither of whom received funding from Wal-Mart, big-box stores led by Wal-Mart reduce families' food bills by one-fourth.
    Because Wal-Mart's price-cutting also has a big impact on the non-food stuff it peddles, it saves U.S. consumers upward of $200 billion a year, making it a larger booster of family welfare than the federal government's $33 billion food-stamp program.
    How can centrist Democrats respond to that? By beating up Wal-Mart and forcing it to focus on public relations rather than opening new stores, Democrats are harming the poor Americans they claim to speak for.
    Sebastian Mallaby writes for The Washington Post. His e-mail address is mallabys@ washpost.com.
    To me the entire article misses the criticism of Walmart and it's practices, and goes against those who criticize Walmart.

    I say take things to the next logical conclusion, and have the Federal Government follow Walmart's business plan. Cheap shit for everybody!

    Now where's my effing tax cut?
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

  9. #9
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    Re: Opposition to Wal-Mart

    I'm personally boycotting Walmart because they're fundamentally bad stores. They're generally dimly lit caverns which seem to be laid out specifically to make shopping harder on the consumer. More over they're both under-staffed (not enough employees) and poorly staffed (too few managers, employees with bad aditudes etc).
    I cant count the number of times I've waited in excessivly long lines while a manager at walmart stood there and DID NOTHING. I honestly think walmart is chasing the stock price and not the success of it's business by providing so little compensation.
    Knowing is half the battle.

  10. #10
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    Re: Opposition to Wal-Mart

    Quote Originally Posted by General_Alfie View Post
    CENTEX: Mallaby is a Washington Post columnist and also the kind of smarmy, Ivy Leagued "Miss Priss" that every sensible person just wants to slap into next year. The Mallabys (of Boston, Manhattan, Palm Springs and Paris) wou;dn't be caught DEAD in a WalMart, let alone BUY anything there.
    Thanks GA!

    I thought that his article smelled a little pugnacious.

    Now I know why.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

  11. #11

    Re: Opposition to Wal-Mart

    Quote Originally Posted by ICO7 View Post
    The point about Wal-Mart, or businesses in general, should worry about health care costs is absurd and "wrong and ignorant"---socialize it and the problem is solved. Quit, like that minimum wage increase nonsense, trying to push the responsibility on others, Dems!
    Of course, if one didn't like the pay scale, one could quit. The other alternative is to organize and demand better wages. Wal-Mart uses it's buying power to buy merchandise at lower prices than the competition can it's competition can secure. Why shouldn't employees use their their ability to deny Wal-Mart their services to get higher wages?

    I guess these are just rhetorical questions because I have learned not to expect a valid response from you, but I can't wait to see if you will resort to insults or obfuscation.

  12. #12
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    Re: Opposition to Wal-Mart

    Quote Originally Posted by ICO7 View Post
    It said Washington Post at the bottom of your posting of it.

    And isn't that response rather lacking? One doesn't have to shop at Wal-Mart or be likeable for them to analyze a situation and prove their position. I'm certain one could, other than commit such atrocious dismissals or ad homs, focus on proving his actual argument wrong.

    There, I caught and called out a "Dem" doing it, vanman (or whoever it was that kept wailing and whining about threads containing Americablog as a source).

    Here is one thing that caught my eye in regards to this article: "To see the difference between then and now, just look at the Clintons. In the late 1980s and early 1990s, Hillary Clinton sat on Wal-Mart's board; and when Sam Walton died in 1992, Bill Clinton lauded him as 'a wonderful family man and one of the greatest citizens in the history of the state of Arkansas.'"

    He then faults Mrs. Clinton for returning a check in 2005, even though Sam Walton had been dead for 13 years and a lot can change, even in corporate America, in 13 years. The same for when he chided Lieberman---he's not actually discussing how Mrs. Clinton or Lieberman came to their current conclusions (unless you call that vapid generalized post-Enron Democrat response), and he also assumes that nothing changed in regards to Wal-Mart in 13 years, placing the blame generally on Democrats and their positions.

    The point about Wal-Mart, or businesses in general, should worry about health care costs is absurd and "wrong and ignorant"---socialize it and the problem is solved. Quit, like that minimum wage increase nonsense, trying to push the responsibility on others, Dems!
    Make no mistake about it Walmart has revolutionized the way that Americans (regardless of class or party affiliation) buy thier goods.

    Gone are the days of quaint town-squares, and Mom and Pop stores. I can drive you to virtually any town in America. If they have a Wal*Mart Super Center somewhere, I can show you empty main streets, and vacant town-squares.

    I can cite several examples just in my area where Wal*Mart came in and sweet-talked municipalities with the promise of retail tax receipts filling the city coffers, on the condition that they receive a 10 year "tax-abatement" on their property in return for building there. Nothing wrong with that right? As soon as the ten year contract was up, they would (in one local case that I know) closed thier store and built another one across the street because they got a sweet abatement over the city line (street) there.

    Wal*Mart is a done deal people! Face it. There's no going back.

    However, Wal*Mart built part of its reputation on "Buy America!" Good luck finding any American made products at a U.S. Wal*Mart now.

    If a company like Wal*Mart can get away with paying near mimimum wages, why should other big retailers pay any higher?

    It's a free market, and Wal*Mart is setting the standard.

    Why shouldn't they be held accountable? Why should Wal*Mart get a free ride when so many others have been getting the shaft from the same company?

    Net sales for the six months ended July 31, 2006, were $163.359 billion, an increase of 11.9 percent over the first six months of fiscal 2006. Income from continuing operations for the six months ended July 31, 2006, increased 5.2 percent to $5.645 billion, up from $5.365 billion in the same prior year period. Earnings per share from continuing operations for the six months ended July 31, 2006, were $1.35, up from $1.28 in the same prior year period. Earnings per share from continuing operations for the six months ended July 31, 2005, were favorably impacted by two items totaling $145 million after tax or $0.03 per share: an increase due to favorable tax resolutions of $77 million and positive legal developments of $68 million after-tax.
    source: Walmart's Financial Release for July 2006

    And the American Poor, and working poor should just be thankful that they have a low paying job I guess.



    What Wal*Mart really needs is to spend some of those net profits on a really good PR firm.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

  13. #13

    Re: Opposition to Wal-Mart

    Quote Originally Posted by ICO7 View Post
    I've not once said the employees can't vie to increase their salaries. I'm saying that raising the minimum wage, which is a government action not an employee action, is a foolish endeavor. Why must you lie and claim that I say things I've not?
    Okay, same thing. The electorate wants the minimum wage raised and pressures Congress, while Wal-Mart pressures Congress to not raise it.

    I do appreciate you helping me to understand the libertarian pathology. If one thinks everyone is a liar and/or ignorant it is understandable that one adopts an anti-social philosophy.

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