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Thread: Comics!

  1. #1
    Effortless_Pro
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    Comics!

    After much thought, and very little input. I've decided, that I will in fact pioneer the comics thread, which will encompass everything that has to do with Comics, Whether it be ; Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, Vertigo, Tokyo Pop...etc, etc...

    I know, I was told that only four or five people are keeping a thread alive, but that's really all it takes isn't it?
    I mean some of the threads in the Daddies, Bear, Chubs and Chasers thread are only kept alive by four or five people so why not.
    For all of us Comic fans, we should unite under one thread, enlighten the other Jubbers, inform each other, and entertain all as so many comics do for us!

    I mean with the recent slew of Superhero(ness?) flyign aroudn jub, why not heck we even might make non-believers, TRUE BELIEVERS. It can't hurt to try right?
    So who's with me (Sheepishly looks for Luminum, Yuty, GL, Brijan Marvels, and all the other posters and comic lovers).

    Now Let's make one thng clear, let's not try to say who has the tightest tights, and belittle those who disagree, maybe try and remain flame free...Comics are meant to be enjoyable. So let's try and keep it that way.
    Every month we coudl update eachother on what's happening discuss current issues, within the issues: p, and Have a theme, like This vs. That and what not? No Does anyone think it's a good idea....
    I think I'll start off the thread by postig one of my favorite panels, from "Mythos" (a remake of the first X-men comics) it's simply beautiful the art is lovely and it's been updated to the times....Enjoy and hope all you comics fans have fun in here!

    In it there's an allusion to the brutal murder of Matthew Shepard.
    If it's out coudl someone advise me to this information. I think it looks absolutly beautiful.

  2. #2
    Peto Antoni
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    Re: Comics!

    Good luck in your endeavour.

    For whatever reason, I never got hooked, not even remotely, on comic books!

  3. #3
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    Re: Comics!

    Oh! I'm game. Let's see... how about "What Are You Reading Now?"

    Right now I'm reading Batman, Blue Beetle, Detective Comics, Green Lantern, Green Lantern: Ion, Green Lantern Corps is about to begin and I just added Wonder Woman to my list. I'm also reading Astonishing X-Men and Squadron Supreme. I want to get back onto Amazing Spider-Man, but its been some time and I'm just looking for a jumping on point. The same goes for the New Avengers. I got my hands on the trades for Avengers: Disassembled and the New Avengers: Breakout. I also got Moon Knight as I was curious to see what they would do with him.




  4. #4
    Imbeciles...
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    Re: Comics!

    Marvel is also supposed to be making these comics based on eastern myths only reinvented using x-men stories, like Peach Boy using Xavier as the monk and Scott as the Peach Boy with one eye.

    I hadn't heard about mythos.

    Right now, I read Astonishing X-Men, Uncanny X-Men (god, I love Cannonball's new costume...), X-factor is refreshingly different, X-Men, New X-Men (I want to see where all of this death is going and I'm fanboying over Anole and hope he gets more face time), Ultimate X-Men, Ultimate Spiderman, Teen Titans, and Young Avengers (because of Billie and Teddy ).

    I really want to see more done with the Cuckoos. They're icnredibly intriguing and after the hints being dropped about being Weapon XIII, I mean, come on!

    Actually, what I'm really hoping is that New X-Men will come through and really establish these new mutants into the X-men universe. Right now, I feel like they're not being taken seriously as characters and that they'll never be used for anything else. I want to see the students excelling and becoming cohesive fighters and really workign together to solve a menace at hand. They're all fragmented now and I don't get that feel like the original New Mutants. They have good characters, but they're stuck in this X-Men Jr. type thing.

    And please, can we get a reducteion in the Wolverine? He's everywhere and everyone love shim, but let's try to make some other outstanding characters into icons, too. Scott, Beast, Jean (even though she's dead), Emma, Kitty, Colossus, Storm, Rogue and Gambit, should all be as recognizeable as Wolverine, here. Make them shine.

    Plus, I want to see more about the depowered mutants. Don't let them fade into obscurity...

    Oh, btw, can anyone explain the following to me:

    Infinite Crisis
    This '52' thing I've been seeing?

  5. #5
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    Re: Comics!

    I'll chime in here...

    My current pull list includes

    DC
    52, JSA Classified, Blue Beetle, Green Lantern, Green Lantern Corps, JSA, JLA, Wonder Woman, Secret Six, ShadowPact, the new Atom, Firestorm, Teen Titans, Checkmate (altho I'm probably dropping it soon), Fables, Ion.

    Marvel
    Ultimate Spiderman, Ultimate Fantastic Four, Ultimate XMen, Xmen, Astonishing Xmen, Uncanny XMen, XFactor, New XMen (on occasion), Avengers, Young Avengers, Spiderwoman, AMazing Spiderman, Civil War, Annihilation group of minis, Squadron Supreme.

    Independents
    Anthem, any Nightmare on Elm Street limiteds that come out.

    mikey
    -no wonder I never have any money....

  6. #6
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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by luminum
    Oh, btw, can anyone explain the following to me:

    Infinite Crisis
    This '52' thing I've been seeing?
    Allow me to try.

    Infinite Crisis: Twenty years ago, we had Infinite Crisis on Multiple Earths. Geoff Johns, among others, were brought in to provide a follow up. The past few years have seen the DC universe growing darker and some continuity flaws. Alexander Luthor, Superboy Prime, and Earth 2 Superman and his Lois Lane were stuck in a "bubble" that allowed them to watch the current earth and its heros. Superboy Prime began punching the walls of the bubble, causing continuity changes in the current earth. Alexander took advantage of this and set some things into motion. Basically, Alex caused the rift between the holy trio (batman, superman, and ww). He pretended to be Lex Luthor and convinced the villians to join his society. The bubble finally broke... those trapped in teh bubble emerged into the current earth. Alex set his plans into motion, brought back the multiverse. The current Superboy (Conner Kent) died to bring the earths back into one. Earth 2 Superman and his Lois also died. The speed force that powered Flash and Kid Flash is gone, and they vanished and lost their powers. Jay from the JSA is the only Flash left at the moment. The Joker was pissed that Alex didn't invite him to join the society and killed him. Everyone now remembers the multiverse and the losses from that big crisis, as well as the losses from the new crisis. At the end of the series, WW, Sperman, and Batman (along with Nightwing) were left battered and went off in search of who they were and what it meant to be a hero. This set the stage for...

    52: this weekly series takes up a few hours after Infinite Crisis ended. A year will pass without WW, Batman, and Superman. This series explains everything that has occurred prior to the dramatic One Year Later changes seen in the regular titles. 52 will introduce a number of new heroes (including the lesbian Batwoman in issue 11) and will explain some of the changes we're seeing in the regular titles. The current issue just brought back some of the heroes that went into space with Donna Troy... very interesting aftermath for hawkgirl and a few others. It also brings Ralph Digby back into the realm of comics (he's been on the back burner since Identity Crisis and the death of his wife Sue). The Question is also playing a large role in the series, as well as Steel.

    Hope this helps!
    mikey

  7. #7
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    Re: Comics!

    OK, Mikey? Can I be honest here? You have just turned me on.

    I forgot to add that I am also reading Civil War and picked up Civil War: Front Line as well. I would love to get back into X-Men but have been away from it for so long that I'm not really sure where to begin. At least with Astonishing I was able to get into it half way. Truth be told, it was Brijan who recommended it and at that time Marvel had just released the trade with the first 6 issues and I picked up the back issues from there.




  8. #8
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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by GL247
    OK, Mikey? Can I be honest here? You have just turned me on.

    I forgot to add that I am also reading Civil War and picked up Civil War: Front Line as well. I would love to get back into X-Men but have been away from it for so long that I'm not really sure where to begin. At least with Astonishing I was able to get into it half way. Truth be told, it was Brijan who recommended it and at that time Marvel had just released the trade with the first 6 issues and I picked up the back issues from there.
    Tell em what youw ant to know and I'll try to fill you in as best you can. ::wags tail:: Pleeeaaasseee???

  9. #9
    yuty
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    Re: Comics!

    I haven't read X-Men that much (minus Astonishing X-Men) because of the Devils called Milligan and Chuck Austen.

    Claramont's writing also makes me vomit....

  10. #10
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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by GL247
    OK, Mikey? Can I be honest here? You have just turned me on.

    I forgot to add that I am also reading Civil War and picked up Civil War: Front Line as well. I would love to get back into X-Men but have been away from it for so long that I'm not really sure where to begin. At least with Astonishing I was able to get into it half way. Truth be told, it was Brijan who recommended it and at that time Marvel had just released the trade with the first 6 issues and I picked up the back issues from there.
    I decided against Front Line; the previews made it sound like a fringe story (altho I understand some important details are being revealed there). Guess I'll pick up the trade.

    What characters would you like to start your XMen history lesson with? Between Luminum and me, we ought to be able to bring you to multiple orgasms!

    mikey

  11. #11
    yuty
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    Re: Comics!

    It's scenes like this that makes me question if Magneto is not a villain but a rather a hero:


  12. #12
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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by luminum
    Tell em what youw ant to know and I'll try to fill you in as best you can. ::wags tail:: Pleeeaaasseee???
    Quote Originally Posted by okstatecowboy
    What characters would you like to start your XMen history lesson with? Between Luminum and me, we ought to be able to bring you to multiple orgasms!
    LOL! I'll begin compiling a list.




  13. #13
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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by yuty
    It's scenes like this that makes me question if Magneto is not a villain but a rather a hero:

    It is without a doubt, a powerful scene. But I don't think Magneto can be considered a hero, nor do I think he's an outright villain. He's right smack dab in the middle. A very grey area as it were. He has an agenda of his own and is diligent in his pursuit. I think this is what makes him so damn interesting.




  14. #14
    Marvels
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    Re: Comics!

    Wow, so this is what happens when I eat my own words, hehehe. Awesome.

    From what I hear, the next Mythos issue won't be X-Men, but will be the origin of Bruce banner. If Jenkins is going to write again then maybe I'll give it a shot.

    My pull list: The Punisher MAX, Astonishing X-Men, New X-Men, NEXTWAVE, Civil War, Ultimate Fantastic Four, New Avengers, X-Factor, Young Avengers, Daredevil, Amazing Spider-Man.

  15. #15
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    Re: Comics!

    I just read Spiderman Civil War and I'm absolutely heartbroken. I hate you, Tony Stark. Things have not changed. You're only allowing things to change, you bastard! Don't cave into them! Don't give into the fear!

    Is it just me or is Marvel really depressing right now? Characters in Marvel just take one blow after another....kick after kick. New X-Men was probably the most uplifting title I've ever read and after Jean died, every title is now compeletely depressing and unfair.

  16. #16
    yuty
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    Re: Comics!

    Yep. Even the color tones are depressing. Brown, green, black, and deep blue.

    But I bet the Civil War will do what Infinite Crisis did to DC. Make things more livelier.

  17. #17
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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by luminum
    I just read Spiderman Civil War and I'm absolutely heartbroken. I hate you, Tony Stark. Things have not changed. You're only allowing things to change, you bastard! Don't cave into them! Don't give into the fear!

    Is it just me or is Marvel really depressing right now? Characters in Marvel just take one blow after another....kick after kick. New X-Men was probably the most uplifting title I've ever read and after Jean died, every title is now compeletely depressing and unfair.
    Right now, I think the majority of the industry is in a dark period. The same can be seen in DC. I think this is one reason I so very much loved Green Lantern Corps: Recharge. They were rebuilding and all these new, disparate recruits had to work together.




  18. #18
    Marvels
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    Re: Comics!

    I'm Pro-Registration, by the way.

    It's not giving in to fear, it's making sure that the world has a unified taskforce against threats.

    I hate you, Captain America.

  19. #19
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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvels
    I'm Pro-Registration, by the way.

    It's not giving in to fear, it's making sure that the world has a unified taskforce against threats.

    I hate you, Captain America.
    Nooo!

    I'm against registration myself.




  20. #20
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    Re: Comics!

    Against. Why should superheroes be forced to sacrifice their freedom for the good they do? The legislationw as passed out of fear and misdirected anger. They blame heroes for this, when it had nothing to do witht hem and as Stark says, "It doesn't matter. We may not be responsible, but we are the same super powers. We are the cousins."

    The legislation has been pushed hurridly and I don't see how punishing heroes and endangering their loved ones and the normal lives they've tried to build and had to build because they're not all millionaires like Stark who do good is fair or responsible at all.

    The public wants accountability from the bad guys, so they register all the good guys and force them to reveal themselves publically. That makes no sense and anyone else who doesn't want their rights taken away will be hunted down publically and arrested as will their innocent loved ones who only know who they are for the crime of...


    ...doing good anonymously.

    Bull. Shit.

    Stark pressured and obligated Parker and guilted him, too. Mary Jane and Aunt Mae's rationale made absolutely no sense whatsoever, it was completely forced. I bet you one or more of these heroes' loved ones gets attacked and killed before the government can 'protect' them.

    The public is angry at a villain, Nitro, but since they can't do anythign with Nitro, theyw ant to punish every hero out there. It's an inferiority complex and a shitload of misplaced anger. I kept hoping that the heros would say "Fuck you." to the public and leave them to deal with villains themselves sicne they're so damn ungrateful.

    Seriously, I've had enough of this in comics. They do so much good. Every hero title out there and they get nothing but disrespect or they get taken for granted. Fuck you, citizens.

    It isn't about a unified task force, it's about accountability and it demands accountability from people who can't give it because it's
    not their account to give. Tony Stark keeps sayign that because a woman's daughter was killed there, it boosted him into agreeing with this, but I'm sorry, the death of an innocent, no amtter how sad and innocent that victim may be...if the victim's death is unrelated in consequence to the law ebing passed, I don't see it as being usefula t all. It's only vindictive. It's like passing legislation that holds airplane manufacturers accountable for 9/11, the main reason of support being because kids got killed. Stupid sensationalism.

    Fuck you, Tony Stark, you alcoholic tool.

    .../rant>

    Sorry, these are just frustrations I've been harboring since New X-Men and Decimation.

  21. #21
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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peto Antoni
    Good luck in your endeavour.

    For whatever reason, I never got hooked, not even remotely, on comic books!
    why does this guy always throw his 2cents in to these threads that he claims he has no intrest in or he doesn't like or he never found attractive?why bother even going on a thread that says things you don't like and feel the need to tell us you don't like it?find a hobby you like and start a thread so we can see you have something positive to say.

  22. #22
    Marvels
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    Re: Comics!

    From what the court said on The Road to Civil War, superhero families will be assigned to programs not different from the Witness relocation ones. Besides, they aren't going to reveal who they are to the world - - that would be irresponsible; only to S.H.I.E.L.D. and high-level Government employees (or so I've read).

    Besides, if superheroes are registered from birth; trained to do what's right from the get-go, then in time they could theoretically remove every possible threat of a rising supercriminal. They could prevent tragedies like the kid from Ultimate X-Men who unknowingly kills everyone in a radius from happening.

    Yes, I realize that Quentin Quire poses as the ultimate objection to this theorem - - which is why the Government should be allowed to automatically take counter-measures should a rogue hero manifest by using the data registered on their version of CODIS.

    And I don't see how registration will have them give up their freedom. It's not like S.H.I.E.L.D. will tell them who to save and who not to - - they are STILL heroes, they can stop a mugger as much as they could stop an alien invasion. They just get better training, a salary, and the backing of their own Government - - which I will never see as cons.

    Superheroes WERE accountable for the Stamford Disaster. The New Warriors knew that they were out of their league, but still went in guns ablazing, just for ratings. In a very, very public place may I add. If they had the Government's backing, of they were trained like army men and real soldiers, then they WOULD have found a way to neutralize them efficiently, and without collateral damage (I'm testing hypothesis contrary to fact, I know).

    Which reminds me - - do you think our perspectives on the registration are affected by our status and backgrounds?

    P.S. I love Cap to bits. He's a bad-ass. Just not his decision to side against THE LAW.

  23. #23
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    Re: Comics!

    Luminum, I totally agree with your assessment of the current issue of Amazing Spiderman. Aunt May and Mary Jane do seem forced in the issue. And the last panel of the issue! "I have an announcement to make" I bet Mary Jane bites it before the end of the War. Recent interviews with Joe whatshisface have mentioned he hates the fact that Peter married her and would love to see him single again...

    mikey

  24. #24
    Effortless_Pro
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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvels
    From what the court said on The Road to Civil War, superhero families will be assigned to programs not different from the Witness relocation ones. Besides, they aren't going to reveal who they are to the world - - that would be irresponsible; only to S.H.I.E.L.D. and high-level Government employees (or so I've read).

    Besides, if superheroes are registered from birth; trained to do what's right from the get-go, then in time they could theoretically remove every possible threat of a rising supercriminal. They could prevent tragedies like the kid from Ultimate X-Men who unknowingly kills everyone in a radius from happening.

    Yes, I realize that Quentin Quire poses as the ultimate objection to this theorem - - which is why the Government should be allowed to automatically take counter-measures should a rogue hero manifest by using the data registered on their version of CODIS.

    And I don't see how registration will have them give up their freedom. It's not like S.H.I.E.L.D. will tell them who to save and who not to - - they are STILL heroes, they can stop a mugger as much as they could stop an alien invasion. They just get better training, a salary, and the backing of their own Government - - which I will never see as cons.

    Superheroes WERE accountable for the Stamford Disaster. The New Warriors knew that they were out of their league, but still went in guns ablazing, just for ratings. In a very, very public place may I add. If they had the Government's backing, of they were trained like army men and real soldiers, then they WOULD have found a way to neutralize them efficiently, and without collateral damage (I'm testing hypothesis contrary to fact, I know).

    Which reminds me - - do you think our perspectives on the registration are affected by our status and backgrounds?

    P.S. I love Cap to bits. He's a bad-ass. Just not his decision to side against THE LAW.
    See I find it interesting that Captain America sided, agaisnt the registration.
    Why?
    Well because he's done that all before, and it basically ruined his life.
    Even though they're heroes, with super powers they still want a life of normalcy, sure they'll probably never have it, but they try, they succeed here and there.

    So sure Superhero loved one protection agencies would be great. The only problem with that is....let's say a villain who's a telepath woudl have no trouble finding them, if that were the case, I mean humans, mutants, heroes are all subjected to the flaws of mankind and would do almost anything for a buck, what's to stop a government employee from taking a bribe to reveal where such and such is?

    I mean, why should they be registered from birth, and train to fight this and do that, what if they choose not to fight, what if they manage to keep their powers under control and not use them? What if they want to be "Normal"? Sure maybe every now and then they'll help somebody but woudl conscrption be nessecary? Is it right?
    What is right though? Being militarily trained to fight FOR the government? What if some whackjob is controlling the government (Let's say a Lex Luthor type Villain controlling the american government?) Or Hell Dr.Doom controlling the government! Then what would happen? The government also coudl always deploy these "Heroes" for their own personal gain, it should be the heroes choice to help people, they should not be forced into it.

    It's liek Big Brother. Surely we wouldn't want to be registered from birth if it ever came possible to detect homosexuals. It does seem liek a rather curious motion, with possible ulterior motives.





    (in regards to what I'm reading right now? Not a whole lot I'm waiting for my copy of Endsong to Arrive)

  25. #25
    Effortless_Pro
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    Re: Comics!

    Uh Oh I killed my own thread!

    Better post some Civil War Pictures, and another page from Mythos.
    (people like pictures )

    I'll also upload a picture of the Iluminati
    Which consist of Iron Man, Prof. X, Dr Strange, Namor, Reed Richards, and I dunno who the last guy is....(Havok? Quicksilver? seriously no idea)

    Anyone care to Fill me in as to what the "Iluminati" is all about I IGN vaguly made a reference to it, and that it was shocking, is all.

    Also I love the Joker and his Boners.

  26. #26
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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by luminum
    Fuck you, Tony Stark, you alcoholic tool.
    Heh, I don't like him either, ever since I read Iron Man #228; so much so I wrote him as a homophobe in fan fiction that I wrote, which also doubled as a script that I sent to Marvel, and I believe that's what may have inspired his sarcastic reference to himself as the "Grand Dragon of the KKK" in Avengers #27, since Busiek may have skimmed my script.

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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by luminum
    and after Jean died
    Yeah, cuz you know she'll never be back...

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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvels
    I'm Pro-Registration, by the way.
    Is this a recent development where we've seen this come back into the Marvel Universe or we are harkening back to the Mutant Registration Act of the 80's and the proposed Superhero Registration Act of the very late 80's, early 90's?

  29. #29
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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Effortless_Pro
    I'll also upload a picture of the Iluminati
    Which consist of Iron Man, Prof. X, Dr Strange, Namor, Reed Richards, and I dunno who the last guy is....(Havok? Quicksilver? seriously no idea)
    That would be Blackbolt of the Inhumans.




  30. #30
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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Effortless_Pro
    See I find it interesting that Captain America sided, agaisnt the registration.
    Why?
    Well because he's done that all before, and it basically ruined his life.
    Even though they're heroes, with super powers they still want a life of normalcy, sure they'll probably never have it, but they try, they succeed here and there.

    So sure Superhero loved one protection agencies would be great. The only problem with that is....let's say a villain who's a telepath woudl have no trouble finding them, if that were the case, I mean humans, mutants, heroes are all subjected to the flaws of mankind and would do almost anything for a buck, what's to stop a government employee from taking a bribe to reveal where such and such is?

    I mean, why should they be registered from birth, and train to fight this and do that, what if they choose not to fight, what if they manage to keep their powers under control and not use them? What if they want to be "Normal"? Sure maybe every now and then they'll help somebody but woudl conscrption be nessecary? Is it right?
    What is right though? Being militarily trained to fight FOR the government? What if some whackjob is controlling the government (Let's say a Lex Luthor type Villain controlling the american government?) Or Hell Dr.Doom controlling the government! Then what would happen? The government also coudl always deploy these "Heroes" for their own personal gain, it should be the heroes choice to help people, they should not be forced into it.

    It's liek Big Brother. Surely we wouldn't want to be registered from birth if it ever came possible to detect homosexuals. It does seem liek a rather curious motion, with possible ulterior motives.





    (in regards to what I'm reading right now? Not a whole lot I'm waiting for my copy of Endsong to Arrive)

    Policemen register, am I right? Don't they have normal lives beyond the office? Because to me, that's what superheroes are. Cops with powers.

    And telepaths would have no trouble finding hero families either way. Peter Parker's lucky that, before Civil War, he hasn't gone up against a telepath powerful enough to see who his is and where his family lives.

    Of course it is posibble for an employee to take a bribe, hell, Jessica Drew's the iffiest memeber in S.H.I.E.L.D. right now. That's why I proposed that the information only be given to the highest ranking officials. Nick Fury knew everybody's secret identity in his little Secret War, and I'm sure he wasn't the only one since other Level Ten members had the same access as he did. Did anything bad happen to the heroes then, regarding their personal lives? No.

    And if they are registered from birth, and they don't want to fight, they should a least take courses in how to control their powers - - like how we study for driving or speech lessons. If they want to help people, fine. But they should have boundaries. Like the equivalent of how we help a guy getting beaten up by unarmed thugs, but call the police when we start hearing gunshots.

    As for corruption, why would you think that heroes would allow to continue to be in service if they knew that their leader was E-vil? And Doctor Doom ruling isn't a bad thing, since the short time he DID rule the world, he brought forth an unprecedented amount of prosperity. Hell, it took him eighteen months to turn Latveria into a world power the very moment he came to power. Not everything is black and white.

    And one last thing, homosexuality does not represent a threat to the universe. Metahumans do.

    (Bloody hell, we talk like it's actually happening in the world)

  31. #31
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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvels
    Policemen register, am I right? Don't they have normal lives beyond the office? Because to me, that's what superheroes are. Cops with powers.

    And telepaths would have no trouble finding hero families either way. Peter Parker's lucky that, before Civil War, he hasn't gone up against a telepath powerful enough to see who his is and where his family lives.

    Of course it is posibble for an employee to take a bribe, hell, Jessica Drew's the iffiest memeber in S.H.I.E.L.D. right now. That's why I proposed that the information only be given to the highest ranking officials. Nick Fury knew everybody's secret identity in his little Secret War, and I'm sure he wasn't the only one since other Level Ten members had the same access as he did. Did anything bad happen to the heroes then, regarding their personal lives? No.

    And if they are registered from birth, and they don't want to fight, they should a least take courses in how to control their powers - - like how we study for driving or speech lessons. If they want to help people, fine. But they should have boundaries. Like the equivalent of how we help a guy getting beaten up by unarmed thugs, but call the police when we start hearing gunshots.

    As for corruption, why would you think that heroes would allow to continue to be in service if they knew that their leader was E-vil? And Doctor Doom ruling isn't a bad thing, since the short time he DID rule the world, he brought forth an unprecedented amount of prosperity. Hell, it took him eighteen months to turn Latveria into a world power the very moment he came to power. Not everything is black and white.

    And one last thing, homosexuality does not represent a threat to the universe. Metahumans do.

    (Bloody hell, we talk like it's actually happening in the world)
    I have to say that I am in total disagreement with your position. Wrong is wrong. I'm reminded of the exchange between Senator Kelly and Jean Grey at the beginning of X-Men:

    Senator Kelly: Three words: Are mutants dangerous?
    Doctor Jean Grey: That's an unfair question, Senator Kelly. After all, the wrong person behind the wheel of a car can be dangerous.
    Senator Kelly: Well, we do license people to drive.
    Doctor Jean Grey: But not to live.

    No matter which way you look at it it's wrong.




  32. #32
    Effortless_Pro
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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvels
    Policemen register, am I right? Don't they have normal lives beyond the office? Because to me, that's what superheroes are. Cops with powers.

    And telepaths would have no trouble finding hero families either way. Peter Parker's lucky that, before Civil War, he hasn't gone up against a telepath powerful enough to see who his is and where his family lives.

    Of course it is posibble for an employee to take a bribe, hell, Jessica Drew's the iffiest memeber in S.H.I.E.L.D. right now. That's why I proposed that the information only be given to the highest ranking officials. Nick Fury knew everybody's secret identity in his little Secret War, and I'm sure he wasn't the only one since other Level Ten members had the same access as he did. Did anything bad happen to the heroes then, regarding their personal lives? No.

    And if they are registered from birth, and they don't want to fight, they should a least take courses in how to control their powers - - like how we study for driving or speech lessons. If they want to help people, fine. But they should have boundaries. Like the equivalent of how we help a guy getting beaten up by unarmed thugs, but call the police when we start hearing gunshots.

    As for corruption, why would you think that heroes would allow to continue to be in service if they knew that their leader was E-vil? And Doctor Doom ruling isn't a bad thing, since the short time he DID rule the world, he brought forth an unprecedented amount of prosperity. Hell, it took him eighteen months to turn Latveria into a world power the very moment he came to power. Not everything is black and white.

    And one last thing, homosexuality does not represent a threat to the universe. Metahumans do.

    (Bloody hell, we talk like it's actually happening in the world)
    (it's funny we are aren't we)

    I dunno, I mean not all "heroes" have their powers at birth, some don't even manifest till puberty, so it's like we're talking about mutants than.
    The only reason why Doom ruled the world so well was because everybody was under his control...cept for Magneto. I mean when you're the one brainwashing everybody it's not hard to not have prosperity.
    I think cops are different, I mean we hae cops, not all cops get to live normal lives, liek under-cover cops, hell most of the Highway patrol officers in canada, like the OPP and QPP and what not, have to live the fact the the Hell's Angels know where they live.
    I mean if the heroes are working for this so-called government the powers that be would have to let it come to pass, follow the rules, vigilante not being allowed to function.
    I mean humans still have evil intentions, they would probably abuse this power of actually having the humans work for them.
    Why should these mutants and heroes have to fight in the war?

    It's just all too much liek conscription, and there's deffinatly an Ulterior Motive behined it...why else would it be in the story?

    Also what's to stop a hero who is enrolled in this to break away, because it's a nasty form of control...if there's anything that's been demonstrated there will always be a resistence.

    EDIT: Also at one point homosexuals were considered a danger to society, and in some regards to some people we still are.
    Evil will always arise, and I mean for the most part we'd need to wait till these powers manifested and by then they could already be evil.

    There is something fishy about this registration if you ask me, or else it woudn't be such a big deal.

  33. #33
    Marvels
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    Re: Comics!

    Effortless_Pro: Most superhereos get their powers from radioactive waste, which instead of giving them leukemia ends up giving them enhanced senses. Nonetheless, if you had a super-type in your neighborhood who routinely destroys most of everything in order to protect you, wouldn't you want some sort of insurance that he really is out there to help you?

    Vigilantes, anyway you look at it, are STILL criminals. They take the law into their own hands. The only reason superheroes get away with it is because they are just that: super.

    I mean, if Spider-Man had the Government's backing, then would it be possible that he never would have had to go through thr entire drama about him being a menace, since people would know for sure that he was doing 'good'?

    And it doesn't matter if he had people mind-controlled (incidentally, Latverians were never mind controlled in his rise to power), that doesn't make it automatically easy to run a planet.

    If superheroes wanted to live normal lives, then they would never have decided put the mask on in the first place, now would they?

    Again, I raise the point - - an entire army of supermen will not allow themselves to be used by corrupt humans. Heroes breaking away from the law, should be treated as what they are. Criminals.

    Also, paralleling the registration to the plight of the Auschwitz tragedy seems more than a bit forced. We aren't herding people in ovens to let them die. We are organizing them in order to better facilitate their systematic deployment should a major threat arise.

    Registration is here to help normal people cope with the fact that they no longer have control with their lives.

    GL247: And how is it wrong exactly?

  34. #34
    Imbeciles...
    luminum's Avatar
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    Re: Comics!

    You assume that these government institutions will be inherently good. You question why they would ever let themselves be controlled....but if they've been borna nd trained since birth, how easy woudl it be to cotnrol a bunch of new warriors that you've institutionalized for their entire lives?

    I also see it isolating new mutants/heroes. They'd have to go to training schools, separated and probably ostracized by the 'normal' community.

    And if these registration files were so okay, why was the Mutant Registration Act so opposed by the X-Men? They knew it could be abused. They kenw that current mentality towards mutants was not in their favor, just as mentality about superheores is not in their favor.

    And if they were so 'safe' why are the Xavier Protocals always such an issue? This is so easy to abuse. Any technophile like Sage, or Reverand Stryker could hack in and find everything. This registration also just opens another means of finding out a hero's identity and the identity of his/her loved ones. As it stood, the only way it could be found out would be a psychic. But now anyone else can find out.

    And as it looks from Spiderman Civil War, the identity must be revealed publically, since Spiderman's is at a press conference revealing his face.

    Another point is that how can the government rationalize registering mutants and forcing them to train and serve when they aren't even being protected by current laws in the government? It's like requiring gays to serve and protect even though we're second class citizens in the coutnry and the army.

    Plus, if America registers all of its heros and makes them serve and register as 'weapons of mass destruction' (the language reveals just what the motivation behind this act is: prejudice, anger, and fear) what about other coutnries where superpowers are required ot enlist, serve, and fight?

    The whole concept doesn't even seem to have control. Insitutes could be all over the country, which means that they cannot all be supervised like they should to avoid any corruption. One corrupt superpower could influence all his charges to serve him. It could even foster a sense of superiority in the charges. Superpowers are different from police officers because police elect to be given this power and train for their own conscious choice ot use that power as a tool of peace and compliance. When you force people with that power to use it one way even if it wasn't necessarily their choice, you're going to encounter a growing monster that youv'e created on your own.

    And what if someone does rebel? You'll imprison them? Just how many cells will be necessary and what quality will they have to be for each individual power? And imprisoning people because they don't want to serve is like the policy in other coutnries where peoiple are jailed for not enlisting. It takes away a freedom of choice in how to use one's powers and how to live one's life. It takes away the choice from parents who don't believe in what the government would be trainign their children for, even if it's masked as 'training and control of their powers for their own good'. The ultimate goal is to make them into some fighting force. It does take away freedom.

    God, we're talking about this like it's a real policy. I feel so geeky :P

  35. #35
    Effortless_Pro
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    Re: Comics!

    I dunno, if I saw some Superhero fighting somebody else, and witnessed first hand that the person they were fighting were using people and objects agaisnt them whilst the other stopped it from hitting people, I'd probably be able to differentiate the good from the bad.

    I'd barely look to the media for information because half the time it's so bloody biased it's not even funny, especially considering the nitwits are suppose to be giving an unbiased view of what's going on.

    I don't think forcing people into Government Registration to help the greater good is right, it's conscription, it will and can be abused. I mean even if they are registered liek I said in a previous thread, it's not like we wouldn't already know what they can do, and to let us know what some can do could only generate fear in the greater populace....It's a double edged sword that I believe to have more cons, than pro's.

    I find most of the heroes we have in comics have better judgement than the powers that would be controlling them....
    Besides I've already said it a million times, there's something fishy about the whole thing.

  36. #36
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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by yuty
    I haven't read X-Men that much (minus Astonishing X-Men) because of the Devils called Milligan and Chuck Austen.

    Claramont's writing also makes me vomit....
    Amen, Yuty.

  37. #37
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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by okstatecowboy
    Luminum, I totally agree with your assessment of the current issue of Amazing Spiderman. Aunt May and Mary Jane do seem forced in the issue. And the last panel of the issue! "I have an announcement to make" I bet Mary Jane bites it before the end of the War. Recent interviews with Joe whatshisface have mentioned he hates the fact that Peter married her and would love to see him single again...

    mikey
    Not sure on that, OK. Quesada said the problem with either divorcing him and MJ or killing her would only add tragic baggage to him that would further alienate younger readers from him. Quesada's problem with the marriage is that it makes Peter too adult for the younger readers who can then no longer relate to him. Divorced or widowed would make it worse. I'm speculating that they are going to do something that may negate the whole marriage thing as if it never happened--there have been some hints that there might be a time travel or magic aspect to the story before Civil War is all said and done.

  38. #38
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    Re: Comics!

    One idea that Marvel has not played enough with over the years is WHY the X-men/mutants are so hated. They continue to stress that it is because mutants are different, but one of the keys is that they are called Homo Superior. They are supposedly the next link in the evolution chain. So they are basically hated by many for being better than human. Imagine a race of humans forced to confront a new race of beings "designed" to replace them.

    Bullies often seek to oppress those who many would consider weaker than them, but deep down, it could be because the bully senses that the victim is, in truth, far superior.

  39. #39
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    Re: Comics!

    I'm scared to look at what I currently read or will be reading soon:

    DC--Superman/Action, 52, Batman/Detective (sporadically), Wonder Woman, Flash, Justice League, Teen Titans, Legion of Superheroes, JSA, Birds of Prey, Secret Six, Checkmate (will probably drop), Aquaman (ditto), Blue Beetle, Outsiders (probably drop), Firestorm, All Star Superman, Justice, Manhunter, Y the Last Man.

    Marvel--Astonishing X-men, Daredevil, New Avengers (probably drop), Runaways, Young Avengers, X-Factor, Squadron Supreme, Ultimates, Ultimate X-men, Ultimate Fantastic Four, Ultimate Spiderman, Powers.

    Indies: Walking Dead

    At any given time assorted mini-series or occassional issues of other books.

    I know there's more, but it's getting financially depressing to consider how many there might be.

  40. #40
    Effortless_Pro
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    Re: Comics!

    Hmm, Seems Bordness Has Gotten the better of Me
    Here's Cyclops, Storm, Mystique And Dark Phoenix(again).
    (currently working on wolvie, and yes I know they're bad!)

  41. #41
    Effortless_Pro
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    Re: Comics!

    No matter how hard I tried I couldn't make Wolverine Look better with the mask on, but I did try....(it's really hard)

    anywho here's two Variations on good ol' Wolverine, his Blue and Yellow Costume, mask off, and his Brown and Gold Costume (my personal favorite) Mask on.

    EDIT: Just Finished Nightcrawler, I'd say he's my best yet!

  42. #42
    Marvels
    Guest

    Re: Comics!

    All my friends are popular, which means this is the only place where I can talk about comics and not get lblank stares.

    Luminum: I belong to the second most corrupt country in the world, man. Second. I know firsthand the effects of corruption. The same way I know that if the government does not control it's people, then they become nothing more than an angry mob ready to pounce.

    And should they be trained for evil, so what? A person would have to be monumentally stupid to believe that what is bad is good, given the morality plays that society feeds us. But before that, you are arguing about the possibility that an evil government trains evil super-armies. Shouldn't they need the support of heroes first? And the heroes who will support the program, do you think they'll idly stand by and watch as supercriminals get bred once they realize the darker side of the government?

    But why do I agree with registration so much? Because people need to be herded. They need somebody to take charge of them, otherwise, they give in to their lowest fundamental imperative. Survival. By any means necessary. If people were so damn good, then why is there law in the first place?

    Now imagine a time where law cannot hold a man responsible. Where does telepathy get covered in the instituion? When do metahumans realize the boundaries that they have? Because if you want an example of what would happen should metahumans multiply without any fear of law, you get "Kingdom Come". If you haven't read it, then read it. Believe me when I tell you that registration is much better than the final decision humanity had to come to with regards to the metahuman problem.

    And so what if you isolate them? They'll still be with other ethnicities, sexual orientations and whatnot. It's not like they are legally required to get shipped into an island somewhere and never get contact with anyone again. A person who can wake up one morning and kill us all with his mind, in my opinion, should be taught how to not to.

    Which reminds me. Forget the fact that for forty years, the mutants, our favorite fictional characters, have fought against registration. Will we still be so quick to side against it without Xavier repeteadly pummeling us over the head that it's the equivalent of a concentration camp?

    I haven't read Spider-Man yet, but from what I hear, he's been pressured into doing so. I'll catch up on this.

    Registration IS the law that protects mutants and heroes. Relocation programs, special training, Government backing, the works. It just means that they need to sacrifice a little of their precious freedom to get it.

    Now, imagine if there is NO registration. The arms race won't be limited to wealth and technology. It won't be the US against any country with a nuke anymore. Because heroes with powers greater than nukes could get born anywhere. Hell, my next door neighbor could end up with the power to distort time AND resurrect David hasslehoff's career. So what will that mean? It means that every country in the world gets to participate in an arms race - - where they no longer fight with WMD, but persons of mass destruction. We need a system to make sure that it does not happen.

    Tony Stark recommended a global taskforce, but he allowed for the American division to be headed by S.H.I.E.L.D. and themselves. The equivalent would be the same for other countries - - one major company to oversee them all.

    Yes. Policemen elect to do what they do. Heroes do the same the very moment they start wearing masks. No difference.

    Registration will not automatically conscript every metahuman. It will elect to teach them who to use their powers, safely and ethically. Like a certain school we all know. If they rebel, fine, we have the data to take them out, so we take them out. Rotten apples. Just because they're super doesn't mean they get special treatment. They break the law, then they should be broken back. Ryker's had the good idea of using power dampening cells to house their villains. They just needed better external defenses.

    It isn't a matter of choice anymore. Lives are at stake.

    Last but not least, don't you think having data on both Sage and Stryker could give the government an edge in countering them should they go rogue and try to steal some delicate data?

    Yes, I realize I sound completely evil, but people should realize that they need to have some liberties taken away to ensure their own safety. Which, I realize, is a weird thing to say for somebody who is anti-Bush.

    Effortless_Pro: Watch it with the media comments, I'm interning for a TV company next term. I happen to know a lot of fine journalists working news.

    Remember the Invincibles? The big bad is a perfect example of why you shouldn't trust people who seem to eager to 'do good'.

    Anyway, so you don't want any bias from the media, but you insist that they withhold important information from us - - like the identities of people who could level a block by sneezing. I personally would want to know if somebody out there is that kind of a danger to me, my friends and my family.

  43. #43
    Effortless_Pro
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    Re: Comics!

    I suppose I should generalize less.
    But most of the newpapers, and New programs out there, are hardly becoming news anymore, but are rather pushing their own agendas, for ratings, for subscribers.

    Sure there are plenty of honest reporters, but if we look at the media in Spider-man the biggest thing to portray him as a villain was the Daily Bugle, if the Bugle's reporting on spider-man were positive I think it would of been better for him.

    But now most News sources speculate this, and speculate that.
    In fact I was just having a discussion about trials, and how the media covers it....
    In this country...you are innocent until proven guilty you are given the benefit of the doubt, but reporters, newspapers, seem to think otherwise and will paint you as a martyr or a murderer, it's almost like the media decides who's guilty, even if they are proven innocent.
    Look at the Micheal Jackson trial, where he was found innocent and the reporters screaming bloody murder that he was guilty. The courts proved otherwise and the media let their OWN personal beliefes come into play when they're SUPPOSE to give you an unbiased view of what's going on in the world.
    Mind you I don't mind their opinion, but they shoudl be there to deliver me the news, not tell me that someone who the police haven't even released information to the press is GUILTY as charged.

  44. #44
    Effortless_Pro
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    Re: Comics!

    marvels, you said that if they wanted to live normal lives they never would of put on the mask in the first place.

    On the contrary that's exactly why they put the mask on.

  45. #45
    Marvels
    Guest

    Re: Comics!

    I disagree. If they wanted a normal life, then they should stay away from using their powers at all. Deciding to put on a mask and endangering yourself as well as the people around you by flying around, in tights I might add, is far from normal.

    The media does not report bias, as much as it does what people want to hear. I'll admit that much. It gives the people a reason to listen. To identify. We are so off-topic it hurts.

    And by the way, you guys can call me Karlie.

  46. #46
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    Re: Comics!

    Feh! I've already grown weary of all this hypothetical talk! Besides, it's giving me a headache. Y'all can keep on talking of course, I just wanted to do something different. Let's do something simple. Let's talk about favorites! As comic books are a visual medium at its core, I love artists! My favorite is Alex Ross! A sampling...





  47. #47
    JUB Addict bluedragon4's Avatar
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    Re: Comics!

    alex ross is the best!i wish justice would come out more than every other month! i stopped picking up most marvel books cause of civil war. i never like their big events that run through every book. do they really need so many spider-man books? impossible to keep up with all that. i really like ultimate ff right now. the zombie books were great? anyone else read those? the violence in them was crazy and i loved it! can't wait to see what becomes of zombie ff.

  48. #48
    Effortless_Pro
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    Re: Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedragon4
    alex ross is the best!i wish justice would come out more than every other month! i stopped picking up most marvel books cause of civil war. i never like their big events that run through every book. do they really need so many spider-man books? impossible to keep up with all that. i really like ultimate ff right now. the zombie books were great? anyone else read those? the violence in them was crazy and i loved it! can't wait to see what becomes of zombie ff.
    I wanted to ask someone about those Zombie issues Marvel was putting out.
    I hear they're absolutly hysterical!
    I'd like to pick them up too.
    I am under the impression the Silver Surfer fights the Marvel Zombies, as well as magento? in different issues of course.

    Also I've heard a lot about "extinction" which Marvel universe are they getting rid of again? I'm looking forward to that as well.

  49. #49
    Marvels
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    Re: Comics!

    "Extinction" is the Ultimate retelling of Gahlaktus. It's not a bad read, but it doesn't feel as apocalyptic as it should be. It comes froma trilogy of books, actually - - it started with "Nightmare", followed up with "Secret", and was recently concluded with "Extinction".

    "Marvel Zombies" is a five story arc that follows up the events of UFF's crossover arc. It's hot.

    My favorite artists have got to be Alex Ross, followed by Greg Land. Copiel from HoM and Cassaday come next.

  50. #50
    I want to believe
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    Re: Comics!

    More Alex Ross!!!



    Don't forget to check out his website! Click here!




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