I only wish Sausy kept a cooler head in all this. He's one of the sensible and reflective ones. ;)
The title of the thread is the title of the linked piece
Click on the link to see
Anything else would've been a miswrote
Bill Nelson is on with Bill O'Reilly right now
He says there no reason for hammar to be in jail
So much for JayHawks bullshit wail
Perhaps u should chat with him about his let him rot attitude
Yeah try that
And your comment about Sausy is absurd
Sausy is a grown man with diff views than u
And u should respect that
Especially when he's right
I already took your article's written bias to task. The content of the article had nothing to do with Obama holding any responsibility to the veteran's imprisonment. Falling back on that to rationalize your own thread title falls flat.
Title = title
No one is blaming Obama For Hammar's imprisonment
JayHawk is blaming hammar
Bill Nelson isn't
What do u think of that ?
What do u think of his blaming ambassador Stevens for his own death
Be outraged about that
Not some stupid title
Look at chance go, how deftly he dances the dance of obfuscation.
I bet he majored in that in college.
It was sad going through his record and setting up his physical. He is such a beautiful guy, and seems like a good guy. After his physical with the Medical Officer he seemed happy and was joking and stuff. I really hope he does good on the outside. He made Corporal as a grunt which is hard as fuck, and probably did great things in Afghanistan, but just couldn't deal anymore.
No, I did not violate any of HIPAA.
Anyway, PTSD is a real thing, and he is suffering hard from it. He kept fucking up and now the military can't ignore his fuck ups and he is getting administratively seperated. Him and some other fat marine for almost the same shit. Just because you are a veteran, doesn't mean you can break the laws in any country and expect to get away with it. And looking through this thread, it seems Obama's people got on the issue.
I can guarantee you I have the utmost respect for both Ambassador Stevens and any of our Service men and women... including this Marine and those that have done much worse. I have zero respect for an armchair warrior who happily calls for war and then doesn't even have the moxie to maintain any sort of values except "Obama Bad"
Thanks chance,i appreciate the defense...I don't give a fuck what Just Believe or anyone has to say on this...in one ear and out the other. There is no reasoning with progressive ideologues. Senator Bill Nelson is an honorable Democrat standing in defense of Jon Hammar and I'm glad he's in on the situation. If the Administration is getting off its lazy ass great...about fucking time four months later.
Good for you, once again we agree, we don't give a fuck what you have to say either.
But you're on record with your heinous sentiments none of which had anything to do with me
Stevens was at fault - caused his death - not the State Dept. - he was at fault
And you assaulted his character
Hammar you belittled
Not very consistent or credible
The guy was arrested when he asked Mexican authorities if he was doing the right thing. If he would have kept his mouth shut -- maybe none of this would have happened.
I am saddened that there is no sympathy for military and ambassadors that lose their lives while serving our country.
I've seen people put physicians and politicians on platforms before but never to the height that many are elevating Obama. When he falls ... will you be able to handle the consequences?
Benghazi's Law (noun):, The Godwin's law of any thread created by or posted in by Chance or Springer. The ultimate irreducible for white guys still bitter and furious about Obama winning election. Derived from FOX talking points.
Example: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail (Thread Title)
Response by Chance: "What do u think of his blaming ambassador Stevens for his own death"
See what he did there? Benghazi's Law.
Follow-up by Springer: "I am saddened that there is no sympathy for military and ambassadors that lose their lives while serving our country."
Note what he did there. A Benghazi Banzai, which includes not only using Banghazi's law...but throwing in a logical fallacy and egregious falsehood (hint: The guy in prison didn't lose his life serving his country) in order to:
A.) point out that no one else, in a thread about some guy in a Mexican prison...has expressed sadness about military members losing their lives serving their country.
B.) implying the emotional and moral laxity of all those posters in the thread saying that they have no sympathy for ambassadors who lose their lives while serving their country.
Benghazi's Law and the Benghazi Banzai are used in any situation (sitch) where the OP or other partisan right wing posters realize that their thread topic and arguments have been blown to a fine spray of shit speckles and look to derail their own thread or use the 'Look over there!' approach to divert attention from their epic fails.
But as Jack so directly states
Hammar is getting the shaft and has been for 4 mos.
Big enough for Jay Carney to have any knowledge ?
Big enough for the State Dept. to not have told his parents "nothing we can do"
Digest that and let me know if u agree
The vast ignorance of the outraged is epic.
But it is telling how completely on point each of them are in their faux news rage.
Would be nice if any of them did anything to back up their words. But words with no action are just that.
Kinda like the turnout this last election after four years of obstruction and diatribe.
The same goes for these 'local' opinions that lack any credible experience in the real world.
For he who said "this guy tried to do the right thing" I would offer for you to get a prescription of legal marijuana here in the states and then travel across the boarder and tell them you just wanna comply with the law. They will imprison you and tell you that is how you comply.
So inept... I really wish each of them could actually leave the myopic constraints of their fearful lives and do something someday.
^JH, there's where my point about PTSD comes in: the ability to look ahead can go bye-bye, and trust in what is familiar can rise -- i.e., the US border people who told him he was good.
We need a protocol between the US and our two neighbors that if someone is trying to obey the law but gets it wrong, they don't go to jail, they just get turned back with an admonition to get it right next time... which can't be any sooner than, say, three months.
Just another case of faux outrage and a weak attempt to blame Obama like the Benghazi situation.
I don't give a hoot about Obama, because I don't know why he should be paying attention to this. But I'm still outraged.
And I still think that making one of his buddies a consular employee and assigning him to visit the guy daily would be quite effective.
Oh -- and donate enough quality bedding to that prison for every prisoner -- what he has in that pic is deplorable.
Epic fails, rareboy? How about the progressives' epic arrogance? Nose in the air, above it all...chance has more honesty in that twink face avatar of his than all the rarified air that progressives smugly breathe here.
Benghazi's Law, amended...an inability or unwillingness by progressives to ever consider they are possibly mistaken to some extent on anything. And their particular tendency to lord it all above anyone else regarding their intellectual "superiority".
I thank Senator Bill Nelson,btw...he thinks it's outrageous and has worked with the Mexican ambassador and others to help expedite the situation and gain the release of Jon Hammar, even taking to the floor of the Senate to sound out on the travesty. Hopefully our officials will indeed get him released by Christmas.
That does seem reasonable although I dont see where the Senator makes a argument that we should be permitted to be ignorant of the law.Quote:
It is extremely poor service to not return the call of a sitting US Senator if the Ambassador from Mexico is doing just that. He is not appointed or otherwise not able after their recent election that changed governments then I an understand that as well.
Still the initial premise is just hand wringing and bullshit. This is not Obama's realm in any shape or form.
Ambassadors do have to be careful about what they say because their conversations are diplomatically the equivalent of a head of state (it is the direct personal representative) and their commitments can be binding. However, an ambassador, knowing this, would ordinarily be able to skillfully handle a call.
Oh - re, ignorance of the law….let's start with an outlandish example and work back to reality. Suppose you turn up at the border with a freshly severed head and say "Can I bring this into the country?" None of us would be surprised if they said not only "No," but that you would be detained during an investigation of a potential murder.
Even if you protested that severing heads is legal where you come from, which is a colony of stateless peasants living on pieces of floating garbage in the middle of the Great Pacific Garbage Gyre, then you would still not expect them to say "Sorry. Severed heads are not legal in Mexico. Please come again."
(Stay with me here…details are important…even if you were floating in international waters, if you had citizenship somewhere, or even if your boat did, then it would be possible to attribute national jurisdiction and thus the laws that would apply, but without it then if you and your fellow floating peasants want to sever heads, I'm not sure what legal principle would stop you. I think if you were picked up by a boat then the laws of the country where the boat is registered would apply. But if you floated directly onto a Mexican beach with the head already pre-severed and went to the customs office, then the boat rule would be ruled out because the whole Law of the Sea would no longer be the relevant law…Hmmmm….. Anyway, this has been fun. Admit it.)
The point being, the severity of the crime determines the response. And it draws the line as to where discretion permits someone to be just turned away, or have the contraband seized but then to carry merrily on their way, or to be detained for a full investigation, including possible charges.
And travellers should not be naïve about what may pass in one country being considered a serious crime in another.
Can you see that a region in Mexico plagued by gun violence might take a very harsh zero-tolerance approach to weapons importation? No. Probably not. By my rough calculation, the 2nd Amendment to the Mexican Constitution was the one that removed compulsory socialist education from the classroom, but I'm betting not many people here are remembering that.
Moreover, I might have thought a marine would have known something about law in other countries being different from his own, and enough about a chain of command to recognize that officials from his own country have no standing to interpret his obligations under another country's laws.
Do I think he should be freed? Yes I do but in the same breath,if you still aren't 100% sure of something,don't do it. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
More to the point,telling a country your option of their laws and demanding the person be freed or else propably won't work. Just a thought.
To begin with, using an avatar of Ryan Koning for likely a much older and likely less appealing dude is hardly to be accorded the accolade of 'honesty'.
I am using Santa as an avatar right now but that sure as hell doesn't mean I'm bringing everyone presents.
As for the rest of it? Good lord people. It isn't about intellectual superiority. It is about making the effort to be open to a wider range of input and ideas, to be able to embrace the best ideas and qualities of real conservativism as well as social liberalism and the principles of communal effort that literally built the US up until the self-serving Neocons and radical rightwingers decided that they loved Ayn Rand more than the ideals that made their country the envy of the world.
In some cases it just means expecting that people who have so much to say about what their country should be would actually have more knowledge of the dynamics of its history than an auslander and that they might be able to do more than fire off one foamy mouthed hate thread after another about the president they hate and have not accepted as having another four years in power.
I know chance I wish you guys would stop being so arrogant and actually look at the facts before jumping to pompous conspiracy based conclusions.
But what can we do you have been here for a long time spouting the same lack of evidence conspiracies.
But thank you for the Pompous Season greetings. Here is a righteous back at ya.
So you gonna go ahead and admit your thread on the military not helping was trash? How about the Obama watched and let them rot idea? How about in here where somehow it is Obama's job to free a guy who violated the law of another country...?
You never admit your wrong but whine about the 85... it is lacking any sort of genuine honesty. But we all know what we will get when we see Chance has posted anew. Barely readable haiku taking an "OMG I am offended" that other people have different ideas position. Failing an actual position point you then blame the 85. Failing that you call them all Obamapologist because OBLC was determined to be baiting after six or so months of being your primary argument....come up with a new schtick sunshine and try to develop a position founded in critical though instead of one handed to you by Bill Oreilly.
The Mexican Court ordered Jon Hammar released, citing a violation of constitutional rights under Mexican law and emphasizing the lack of willful criminal intent in Hammar's case. Hammar certainly would be in deep shit if he depended on self righteous"progressives" who would interpret the law any fucking way they pleased but well, not in this case. I never said Obama had to personally intervene but we have a State Department that should have been on it....after all, Customs agents misinformed Hammar about Mexican law. Maybe they were involved in the end, but my thanks to principled Democrats like Bull Nelson of Florida(there are SOME left) who helped push for Hammar's release. Hammar showed no intent whatsoever to smuggle the gun, a family heirloom intended to be used hunting in Costa Rica. He declared it and tried to register it...any problems he should have been told he couldn't enter Mexico with it, not rashly imprisoned.
I wasn't one of those ideologues on the right who wanted to boycott Mexico on this, I just wanted action from our government.. from someone to rectify on obvious overreaction and injustice from those Mexican officials who had Hammar arrested. Thankfully the Mexican courts system came through to end this charade and Jon Hammar will be home with his family today.
So to rareboy and Jay Hawk, "whatever"!:rolleyes:
Where u claim to be an expert on all things - LOL
You've morphed into a US rareboy - not a good thing
the hammar family thanks u for ur support - good to know ur loyalties r so solid - glad I'm not in a foxhole with u
and cease and desist on your childlike pms that have an abundance of misspellings which r the highlights actually
Gee if I was wrong then why did a Mexican court have to rule on the matter? Why was this man released without magical presidential involvement as is the baiting thread title?
Sucks to be right so often it hurts....
Couldn't read beyond it ?
It was not a long one
Full of facts
That u ignored
And instead ranted about the accused
Who was treated shabbily
But better to be defensive about Obama and the State Dept.
Politics over people
Say it ain't so :(
Obama had nothing to do with this situation, nor should he have had anything to do with it. Case really quite closed.