The true face of Islam, allegedly.
The true face of Islam, allegedly.
It's a fact that WTC 7 was intentionally "pulled", just a few hours after the attacks.
Have I learned my lesson? Uh...OK...Yes.
well, there were some significant things that happened before and during that day.
i do remember praying, this was back when i was a theist fanatic thanks to the catholic school that i went to :##:, the night before that i wanted something big to happen and i didn't care how good or bad it was. anything to make my life, which was boring and becoming overwhelmingly unbearable, to change. what a coincidence.
on the day of, before the plane hit, i was walking into school for my first period class and i had this song in my head.
well, went to class and then at the end of my 3rd period music class, the music director comes in and let's us know that a plane hit the wtc. when i saw the towers with those huge gaping holes, i had the feeling that i had to go to the bathroom to take a shit. my nerves were shot. seriously thought that the next thing that was going to happen was a nuke was going to be dropped and that would be the end. :( when the same thing happened in washington where they showed somewhere with smoke rising from it on cnn even though they didn't know where it was coming from or what got hit, that just made matters worse. i saw bush when he was down in florida reading to those kids and then he said that "america was attacked" when it was live. i saw the footage where they had somewhere in pakistan celebrating and then it just hit me like a bright idea.
THIS SHIT WAS SET UP BY THE GOVERNMENT. THIS WASN'T A TERRORIST ATTACK. then i realized that mr. bush was the brain behind this shit. after all, he was the one that had everything to gain. then i saw how within a short time span, they had all the suspects and were pointing fingers. it was like a set up. i felt and still to my heart and mind believe that george bush and the usa government set that whole entire thing up. they did everything according to plan and made the perfect cover story even though there were so many loopholes and red flags that didn't make any sense. they were going to say osama did it and he got these guys to hijack some planes to terrorize america. then the days after that, mr. bush and his team used the then vunerablity of americas and capitalized on it. they did the whole "we're america", "islam is evil", "christianity is good", and the whole nine. they pretty much turned it into a holy war and bush had everything to gain from that shit. 9/11 is why he won a second term. otherwise, he would have been a 1 term president. a lot of people hated bush before 9/11 and he had won some sympathizers with the whole "you'll be safer under my watch because we're going to stop terrorism".
It is far, far, to infinity, more likely that some terrorists, took some flying lessons, hijacked some planes and flew them into buildings, as the overwhelming evidence suggests.
I love these kinda threads Cotton... it allows us to see who Jubs with a tin foil hat on....
As for me I was in Faslane Scotland and I watched the news as the first plane struck then took a nap... it was a long few days after that...
I wasn't in New York, I was in Cleveland at work. First someone's relative called them and told them that the World Trade Center had been hit by a plane. We all thought it was an unusual accident. Then we heard that a second plane had hit. Then we heard that a plane had hit the Pentagon. That is when we knew it wasn't an accident. Immediately after, we were told that an order had gone out to evacuate the downtown area and that there was a plane approaching the area. That was the plane that later went down in Pennsylvania. We were told to use the stairs and not the elevators. I was on the thirty-second floor. By the time I reached the street, my legs were wobbly and could hardly hold me up. The train station I had come into town through was in the basement of another skyscraper which was also evacuated and closed, so I couldn't take the train to my car which was parked in the suburbs. A co-worker had driven to work and took a carload of us to our respective cars parked in the outskirts of the city. Later there was a report of a panicked parent who had rushed to a school to pick up their child. They had stopped in the school driveway and left their car door open as they ran into the school to pick up their child. My leg muscles were sore for about three days after that because of all of the stairs I had gone down.
here's the thing about what you said which i also knew on 9/11 and the days after. people would NEVER believe that bush or the us government would do such a thing. i knew that this would take off as soon as the whole "god bless america" and patriotism took off and went into full swing. for a minute after that, you couldn't say squat bad about bush or america or you were seen as unamerican.
but when you look @ it, bush had way more to gain than to lose. the economy was going right to shit, there was a recession that was going on in 2001 some months after he took office, and things were going bad. a lot of people didn't like him especially after he stole the election in 2000. 9/11 saved his ass. he basically made billions of dollars off of it. he secured his political career. he basically was able to finish off what his father started with the gulf war taking out saddam and securing the oil reserves outthere. he had more to gain than osama would. osama had NOTHING to gain from doing what he did. that would have been suicide. you think a billionaire is going to risk his fortune fucking with a country that could destory his ass? it makes no sense.
hell, the us kicked a whole lot of propaganda during that time too. folks ate it up.
Yeah, cause we all know government fraud doesn't happen. LOL!
"Operation Northwoods was a series of false-flag proposals that originated within the United States government in 1962, but were rejected by the Kennedy administration. The proposals called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or other operatives, to commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere. These acts of terrorism were to be blamed on Cuba in order to create public support for a war against that nation, which had recently become communist under Fidel Castro. One part of Operation Northwoods was to "develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington".
Operation Northwoods proposals included hijackings and bombings followed by the introduction of phony evidence that would implicate the Cuban government. It stated:
The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere.
Several other proposals were included within Operation Northwoods, including real or simulated actions against various U.S. military and civilian targets. The plan was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, signed by Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer and sent to the Secretary of Defense. Although part of the U.S. government's Cuban Project anti-communist initiative, Operation Northwoods was never officially accepted; it was authorized by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but then rejected by President John F. Kennedy.
According to currently released documentation, none of the operations became active under the auspices of the Operation Northwoods proposals."
I was ten when it happened! They pulled us out of the school saying we had a fire still and called all the parents to come get us!
It was scary :(
LOL! Like the kid in the video is some kind of expert? Bwaa haa haa!!! He is contrary just to build a name for himself. Truth is some people can't wrap their heads around an idea that their government is not totally honest with them and will deny anything NOT main stream, just to conform. Sheeple. Experts around the world (not just America, but around the world) have aggreed that it was pulled.
But most on here dispell the possibility because, well, they're not American sources.
Oh for fuck's sakes.
Enough with WTC7 conspiracies already.
If anyone knows the least about structural failures, you would already know that the building collapsed from the effects of heat on the structural steel after hours of uncontrolled fires.
A large, independent panel of real experts were able to analyze and model the failure. Please read the following and get the fuck over the idea that the government thought that it would be fun to pull another building down that day.
We watched it on tv. I was thinking, jet fuel, explosion, people incinerated.
^ You are welcome. It makes me crazy that people gravitate toward the absurd in order to feed their paranoid fantasies.
In this case, if people understand that the structure of the lower floors was highly eccentric and without a lot of redundancy for redistribution of loading...they would stop with all the 'govamint did it' nonsense. Sometimes the simplest answer is the truth.
I really do recommend that people read the Structural mag article. For structural engineers or those interested in structures behaviour....it lays out the events and the sequence of failure as clearly and simply as anyone could.
The collapse of WTC7, incidentally has led to a lot of changes in steel structure design around the world since 2001.
The qur'an reads like someone who is bipolar, hence, Muhammad (Peace NOT be upon him) was bipolar.
One cannot read the qur'an and understand Islam completely. It MUST be coupled with hadiths AND surat rasuallah (the biography of the "prophet"). There are also tafsirs and a whole bunch of other supplements that people generally don't understand what is taught in Islam.
Whatever the case, you could remove the qur'an and look ONLY at the life of Muhammad, see how he led his life and you will see why Islam is as fvcked up as it is. Muhammad was a disturbed individual who had married a six year old, had sex with at least two of his wives ON THE VERY DAY he and his gang of marauders killed their husbands and brothers (YES, that would generally be considered rape), he led and fought in over about 70 OFFENSIVE raids and wars on innocent villages and peoples (mostly cause they wouldn't accept Islam but also to get steal their properties), he oversaw the slaughtering of Jews (at one point over 600 slaughtered AFTER they peacefully surrendered, the Jews of Banu Qurayzah), this type of non-sense goes on and on.
I have gone the rounds many times debating people about Islam, I have studied and read thousands upon thousands of hours of Islamic teachings.
It is not good what you find. No matter how many "peaceful" and "tolerant" teachings you find, there are about 100 violent and disgusting for every one peaceful and tolerant teaching.
It's sad. Muslims are the first victim of Islam. People just don't understand. I USED to be one of those people that made excuses for Islam. "Those terrorists take islam out of Context. Islam is a religion of peace." I said that a bunch of times, BEFORE and NOT KNOWING what exactly islam teaches in it's entirety.
(watch, you will see all the progressives foam at the mouth at me for stating what I just did).
But back to the original question, it was certainly a day of sadness. Very scary, it felt like the entire country was under attack. it was also very gloomy to not see or hear a thing in the sky. I live fairly close to an airport and it was spooky not to have the airplanes coming and going as they normally did. If there is an afterlife, I hope those 19 PIGS are being tortured for the evil they committed.
I think it's highly unlikely it was planned by the US government.
But it is still kinda strange that they managed to execute it so well (well other than one plane not reaching it's target). It is quite possible that they let it happen so they could take advantage of it. I remember back then a lot of people here were surprised that the world's greatest military country could be attacked so easily at multiple locations.
And 9/11 didn't happen because of Islam or because those people hated freedom. It happened because of US interference in the middle east (supporting Israel, military presence in Saudi-Arabia and sanctions against Iraq). The religious fanatics were just the tool used to execute attacks which had political motives. And what's suppose to be the solution? More interference in the region :=D: :roll:
I think it's extremely sad how many people, especially Americans, still think it was just about religion and hating freedom. Understandable though since that's the most common explanation the public gets from politicians and the media.
that's one thing that i hate about 9/11. you have folks basically using whatever happened on 9/11 as an excuse to be ignorant. "all muslims are bad. islam is horrible. womp, womp, womp." this is the same reason why we had muslims and people of arab decent being hate crime victims right after 9/11 because we have guys like you around thinking that you can be ignorant or whatever.
i find it funny how i see some of these folks ready to trash islam and muslim people because of what ONE person who happens to be islamic or muslim does. yet when a white person such as the guy in colorado that shot up a movie theater or shots up a school or kills their whole entire family, if someone decided to go like white people are crazy and evil look @ what that white guy did to the movie theater, you'd cry racism.
I would say that I am among those who believe that the US government had good intelligence that something was likely really going to happen on US soil.....and I think that while they may have underestimated the scale of the event, there were indeed those that thought that an attack on US soil be a necessary and useful pretext to war.....with Iraq.
The object being, of course, that if Iraq could be toppled and the US could install a more democratic regime....it would destabilize Iran's influence in the middle east and under the Bush Doctrine...democracy would break out all over.
In the in-depth articles since, there was much discussion about how the Pentagon and military were fearful that without some very obvious and clear threat to America in the post Soviet era....there were likely to be huge reductions in military force and a slow-down in bringing newer and fancier weaponry into use.
There were a huge number of corporations and countries that stood to lose a lot if the US was not shifted back to war footing.
I remember reading that Rumsfeld was furious that the focus would be on Afghanistan instead of Iraq.
Telling the TRUTH about ISLAM is not "disrespect". Since when is telling truth "disrespect". That's the problem with today's world.....WAY TO POLITICALLY CORRECT. It's like communism.....can't say this, can't say that.....it's non-sense and ridiculous!!!!!!
I am so sick of this Political Correctness non-sense!!!!!!
And Christianity doesn't lack either for tons of versus that the overwhelming majority of Christians completely ignore, but which are pretty vile and disgusting to think about applying in real life in the modern world.
What's prejudicial to me is when people posture as if the Qu'ran alone has this distinction.
and keep in mind, just because you buy into the propaganda that that's been on the news since 9/11 doesn't mean that it's the truth. may i ask you. what is your religion or belief if you have any?
read a book and educate yourself on something before you speak on it.
and keep your prejudice and racism towards yourself.
US foreign policy has been stupid and ignorant for 100 years or so, but it's not the cause of Muslims hating America, only a small part.
No it's the majority of the reason.
Which western nations have been attacked after 9/11? Spain and the Uk.
There are many free nations out there... but the ones with high risk are the ones which are murdering Muslims.
I'm pretty sure Christians have killed more Muslims than the other way around. Well at least in modern times.
It was made clear in statements before and after 9/11 that Al-qaeda attacked the US because of the three reasons I mentioned earlier.
So why did Osama Bin Laden make a list of policy grievances about he U.S.'s military presence in the Middle East? Why bother? We all know he "really" meant we're Muslim and we need no excuse to hate people right? That's what you're saying.
You can't have a discussion about Islam with people having that view, and justifying that view by touting it as Osama Bin Ladin did.
However that's an entirely separate issue from saying that U.S. foreign policy had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 whatsoever. You were asked that question and you sorta dodged it.
We live in a world where things like the Crusades and the Inquisitions are part of our real, actual reality and history. So my point is, you're out on a limb saying that something special about Islam or the Qu'ran empowers nasty acts.
Ignoring facts about 9/11 is a good example.
Ignorant people are usually stubborn about not admitting when they are wrong. So they continue to spew their crap mostly based on feeling rather than facts.
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No I'm speaking of statements directly from Al-Qaeeda.
I haven't seen Fahrenheit 911. I don't care much for Moore or left-right arguing in the US.
We're talking about the facts that the U.S. has a long history of imperialist intervention in the Middle East which has created a lot of angry sentiment, including and not limited to propping up dictators or buying off corrupt royal families in exchange for economic or military advantages and then helping to arm and support those regimes to stay in power as quid-pro-quo. Like I said, read Osama Bin Ladens list of grievances and then tell me foreign policy had absolutely nothing to do with why they were targetting the U.S. and not Denmark or Switzerland or Albania. According to your logic those should all be equally desirable targets if foreign policy has absolutely nothing to do with it.Quote:
the "facts"? hilarious! You mean the Michael Moore fahrenheit 911 "facts"? Are those the "facts" you are referring to?
That hatred he had in him once he was indoctrinated and brainwashed with from when he was a little kid. Everything else at that point becomes an excuse. I gotta go. I have no energy for debating Islam and what role it has in today's Islamic societies (and it has far reaching affects), and debating with people who just won't listen, it does no good. No ill will towards you or anyone else here.
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ugghhh.......ditto what I wrote to Geiri85...... chow.
anyway, gotta go all. this drains my energy.....really.
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uggghhhh......just no energy to deal with people who won't don't and refuse to even consider other alternatives. geez. bye.
You always get tired of us when faced with facts you can't answer.
Both Saddam and Osama were allies with the US to begin with.
If I remember correctly Osama also lived in a pretty American-friendly environment, which he later rebelled against. So he was never brainwashed as a child.