Argument over loud music leads to the fatal shooting of a Florida teen

Literally less than nine months after Trayvon Martin was killed, another black teenage student was killed under suspicious circumstances.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,4320738.story

Pretty much, Jordan Davis and several other teenagers were sitting in a sport utility vehicle in the parking lot when the suspect Dunn pulled up next to them in a car and asked them to turn down their music.

Jordan and Dunn exchanged words, and Dunn pulled out a gun and shot eight or nine times, striking Jordan twice. Jordan was sitting in the back seat. No one else was hurt.

And of course the accused murderer is now claiming the same “Stand Your Ground” defense ..... over loud music. :rolleyes: Dunn’s attorney Monday said her client acted responsibly and in self-defense.

Yeah, shooting an unarmed teenager NINE times is totally a justified case of self defense. ](*,) Why is it ALWAYS Florida?!!!!!

*waits for someone trying to claim that the loud music was ‘threatening’ in 5… 4… 3…*

Well loud music isnt threatening but what were the words?


J/K....

Let's face it as human beings we are animals.... just look back a day or two to black Friday and how many assaults and a few murders over cheap plastic shit.....

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At a San Antonio, Texas, Sears, one man argued with customers and even punched one in order to get to the front of the line, prompting a man with a concealed carry permit to pull a gun, said Matthew Porter, public information officer of the San Antonio Police Department.

"It was a little chaotic. People were exiting the store," Porter said. "Fortunately for us, officers responded quickly and were able to ease the commotion."

The man who allegedly caused the altercation fled the scene and remains at large, Porter said. The shopper who pulled the gun will not face charges, he said, because of his concealed carry permit.

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Florida is beyond fucked up. How is it a stand your ground defense? At first I thought this was a case of neighbors. No... the guy was in his car. The "stand your ground" law has absolutely no basis and promotes vigiliantism.

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Argument over loud music leads to the fatal shooting of a Florida teen

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Florida teen

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Florida

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I isolated the problem

Whereas I would not think of defending another senseless murder, I would question why this death matters more than the many others that happened alongside it in 2012 in the US.

The implication that the racial element is significant, representative, or meaningful is worth challenging. Like hate crimes against gays, I'd want there to be evidence that it is representative of a significant culture or racial clash in the larger population.

I've lived in neighborhoods where obnoxious people, often young, pulled up with the booming bass ruining a perfectly good neighborhood with deliberately aggressive "music." But I nor anyone else threatened them or reacted in any other way than extreme annoyance, and it happened all the time.

For some nut to go off and kill a kid doesn't mean it is anything more significant or more relevant than the umptillion black on black murders that happen among teens in Florida every year. That doesn't make this kid's murder OK, but it doesn't make two racially (or culturally) motivated shootings more important than the many more that happen black-to-black with just as flimsy reasons.

The killings are tragic, but I don't see anything to make the race issue any more relevant than all the other murders among black teens in the US that are not interracial. Where's the outrage for them?

Attachment 901510

Hoody... :dead:

Why it matters? It shows a much bigger problem within this gun nut society and the screwed up laws in Florida. The fact the guy is claiming he was standing his ground shows how fucked up the law is in Florida. And I play music with some bass... so I'm ruining the neighborhood? That's not sound logic.

The problem here is not just the murder... but the fact that the law potentially shields murderers.

The implication is that stand your ground laws are shields for racial murders, rather than simply indicative of the general disintegration of lawfulness in society.

Here is a link to reputable statistics on the racial dimensions of crime and punishment in the US:

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/bvvc.pdf

The truth of the matter is not as simple as black and white positions on race in the US.

If murder is a big concern in Hot Topics, then we'd be seeing threads about the preponderance of murderers demographically, but we don't, as it is not PC to address the crime rates that attend the poverty of the minorities.

Murder is a big problem, not just the occasional one off that is racially related.

This thread is yet another race baiting in tedious series of them here.

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Originally Posted by Hard-up1

The implication is that stand your ground laws are shields for racial murders, rather than simply indicative of the general disintegration of lawfulness in society.

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Crime rates are actually declining in society.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...oric-lows?lite

So that's a weak inference.

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The truth of the matter is not as simple as black and white positions on race in the US.

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This isn't addressing what I said about "stand your ground". And what is this about PC? Of course poverty can be tied to crime rates, but crime rates (violent, robbery and most others) have been in quite a few years of decline in the US even during the recession.

This is a race baiting thread? Care to prove it? Or just another one of your outlandlish claims?

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Originally Posted by MoePhoenix7

Yeah, shooting an unarmed teenager NINE times is totally a justified case of self defense. ](*,) Why is it ALWAYS Florida?!!!!!

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This.

This is why I ran like hell and didn't look back.

temperature rising and it's not surprising. :##:

dude better come up with a better defense in court than that. this wasn't a case of self defense. you don't drive up to somebody ready to start a fight telling them to turn down their music. it's pretty clear dude wanted to be a bully like the other asshole and when someone reminds his ass that he's nobody special, he wants to show who's in charge so he shots them up.

some people most definitely do not need guns in their hands. honestly, i think that all the crazy folks with the guns are basically killing the second amendment. guns were only made to protect the people from the government. now it seems like we have to protect the people from the people and that might be through putting stricter controls on guns.

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Originally Posted by Hard-up1

The implication is that stand your ground laws are shields for racial murders, rather than simply indicative of the general disintegration of lawfulness in society.

Here is a link to reputable statistics on the racial dimensions of crime and punishment in the US:

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/bvvc.pdf

The truth of the matter is not as simple as black and white positions on race in the US.

If murder is a big concern in Hot Topics, then we'd be seeing threads about the preponderance of murderers demographically, but we don't, as it is not PC to address the crime rates that attend the poverty of the minorities.

Murder is a big problem, not just the occasional one off that is racially related.

This thread is yet another race baiting in tedious series of them here.

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if murder is a big problem, then that means that the mindstate of america is an even bigger problem. what would posess someone to want to kill let alone hurt somebody? how mad can you be with someone? what message is being sent by shooting somebody? a lot of murders are NOT based off of self defense either. it's basically power issues. "since you did something i don't like, i'm going to show you who's the boss." the easiest way to do that is by hurting somebody physically.

Florida needs to get their shit together. It ain't Texas....hhmmmm. Never mind.

This is disturbing. This guy was not defending his home and as far as I know those kids were under no obligation to turn there music down. If he didn't like it he could have moved his car. Interesting that they left the scene and then once they heard someone had died they fled to where they lived. I wonder if he was drunk after leaving the wedding and that could have impacted this investigation where hopefully they wouldn't have even considered it a "Stand Your Ground" argument his lawyer is trying hide behind.

CXXX..|

Don't worry he won't get off.

And the herd continues to thin itself.

This is the new face of Darwinism. No longer is it those who can't hunt or gather who are weeded out of the gene pool.

What music was it? Cause if it was Nickleback, then I completely understand :lol:

Seriously though, how does shooting someone eight to nine times at relatively close range qualify as self-defense?

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Jordan and Dunn exchanged words, and Dunn pulled a gun and shot eight or nine times, striking Jordan twice, Schoonover said.

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I sincerely doubt it was as simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Beachguyj

Don't worry he won't get off.

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I hope so. This guy needs to go right to jail.

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Originally Posted by GiancarloC

So that's a weak inference.

This is a race baiting thread? Care to prove it? Or just another one of your outlandlish claims?

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The general crime rate is not what is at the center of this thread.

As for dismissing my claims as outlandish, I have no fear that my arguments cannot stand on their own feet against simple attacks such as yours.

Your tendency to dismiss your debate opponents via oblique arguments and dismissive adjectives is comical as usual. You have been beaten so many times in debate here that you have become comical in your diatribes.

And, par for the course, you are still leaving private nastygrams in comments rather than simply debating in the open forum. Your psychological obsession with domination and self-esteem are evidence of delusion, as I said previously in the forum and still post as true.

For this thread to have any traction other than just the same old pissing and moaning about race issues, it needs to prove incidence as relevance, instead of just pulling one outrageous crime out the mix and crying "foul!"

As such, it remains race baiting, and the lack of similar threads about non-racial murders is proof enough. None are so blind as those who will not see.

I wish people would stop trying to take matters into their own hand(s). Especially when it's so unnecessary. :##:

tragic and...

I don't know. I'm speechless.

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Originally Posted by bort138

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Oh goodness...I missed this! LMAO :dead:

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Originally Posted by Hard-up1

As for dismissing my claims as outlandish, I have no fear that my arguments cannot stand on their own feet against simple attacks such as yours.

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Simple attacks? Your arguments don't have any substance to them, once again.

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Your tendency to dismiss your debate opponents via oblique arguments and dismissive adjectives is comical as usual. You have been beaten so many times in debate here that you have become comical in your diatribes.

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Pot calling the kettle black. Once again, you've dismissed me plenty of times, while not actually providing a sound argument. I asked a question about where is the race baiting and still haven't seen any asides from the same old hostility. And where have I been beaten so many times in debates? Show me where. Cut the pompous attitude.

Please show me fucking where or don't make the silly claim.

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And, par for the course, you are still leaving private nastygrams in comments rather than simply debating in the open forum. Your psychological obsession with domination and self-esteem are evidence of delusion, as I said previously in the forum and still post as true.

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LMAO. Now we have an armchair psychologist. All I said is that your argument doesn't have any basis... I'm not the one that cuts off others and shows a nasty disposition to people asking simple questions.

So what was that about not dismissing opponents and making things personal? You've already attacked me several times. It just seems to me your posts always attack others personally... you've already accused others of race baiting... I asked where and you now attack me. That's classic. Mischaracterizing people and calling them racist won't win debates. :roll:

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Originally Posted by Hard-up1

The implication is that stand your ground laws are shields for racial murders, rather than simply indicative of the general disintegration of lawfulness in society.

Here is a link to reputable statistics on the racial dimensions of crime and punishment in the US:

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/bvvc.pdf

The truth of the matter is not as simple as black and white positions on race in the US.

If murder is a big concern in Hot Topics, then we'd be seeing threads about the preponderance of murderers demographically, but we don't, as it is not PC to address the crime rates that attend the poverty of the minorities.

Murder is a big problem, not just the occasional one off that is racially related.

This thread is yet another race baiting in tedious series of them here.

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God..



Then how about you reverse the trend and bring to light the numerous black on black murders across American cities? Since it is a topic of such great concern for both me and you?

*waits for that to never happen*

ANYWAYS....

It is unfortunately racially motivated b/c the Stand Your Ground does give whites who are feeling powerless and intimidated due to the increase of minorities in multiple communities the leeway to exert their angst against the nearest minority. This story along with Trayvon and countless others in this year alone proves that this needs to be a continued discussion.

Race is a relevant issue and if you find it to be tedious, I suggest you refrain from participating in such threads if your sensitivities cannot handle the discussion. ..|

Stories like these frustrate me beyond anything I could explain. While I (obviously) didn’t know Jordan or Trayvon personally, it still saddens me to know that two young men lost their lives because of an overzealous idiot who took his bullshit imagined job title as neighborhood rent-a-cop a little too seriously. I’ve read various articles around the web regarding this case, but had to stop when I started reading comments where “supposedly” grown and educated people actually blamed Jordan for being shot or even questioning why he was parked in a car listening to music at the store without supervision in the first place. Granted, this all took place on public property in a so-called free country. And keep in mind that both boys were only 17 years old confronted by men double their age and physical size.

The fact that there was even a question on why that other murderer should be arrested and charged was unreal to me. Say what you want but we ALL know that if things were flipped, the headlines would read a little differently with the dreaded 'race card' being played all the same.

I can understand that teenagers listening to loud music in public transport or the neighbourhood are absolutely annoying, but shooting them is a bit a farstretched solution.

Why do the U.S. media always have to post all kinds of private information in crime stories? Family, work place, school, wtf.

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Originally Posted by MoePhoenix7

Then how about you reverse the trend and bring to light the numerous black on black murders across American cities? Since it is a topic of such great concern for both me and you?

*waits for that to never happen*

Race is a relevant issue and if you find it to be tedious, I suggest you refrain from participating in such threads if your sensitivities cannot handle the discussion. ..|

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Race IS relevant, which is my entire point. Looking for a spectre of white-on-black racism and finding it, no matter how isolated, doesn't make it valid as a general criticism of American culture, nor even Floridian.

When you obsess and focus on these two cases, and ignore the much larger number of black-on-black teen murders, you effectively portray black teens as some sort of martyrs to racism in Florida. Although these two instances seem to be just that, by remaining silent on the hundreds of other murders of black teens, by blacks, you create more propaganda than concern.

The onus is not on me to raise concern over murders in the US if that is not my quest, but it is my concern to see arguments presented in context with reality instead of hysteria.

My sensitivities are not at stake, but balanced perspective, integrity of facts, and the portrayal of reality are. There is no prerequisite in Hot Topics of agreeing with the OP's premise in order to be allowed to voice opinions in debates, and starting another race thread on JUB is inherently engaging in debate.

The very reason of him posting this thread could be him being pissed off about another story like this and needs to vent or share it somewhere. And his anger is completely justified.

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but balanced perspective, integrity of facts, and the portrayal of reality are.

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You're talking about balanced perspective and facts when you're making assumptions on his intentions of this thread and assuming that he ignores black on black crime just because he doesn't post about it enough.

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Originally Posted by MoePhoenix7

Race is a relevant issue and if you find it to be tedious, I suggest you refrain from participating in such threads if your sensitivities cannot handle the discussion. ..|

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Every thread that addresses race in some way should have this as a disclaimer.

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Originally Posted by MoePhoenix7

Literally less than nine months after Trayvon Martin was killed, another black teenage student was killed under suspicious circumstances.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,4320738.story

Pretty much, Jordan Davis and several other teenagers were sitting in a sport utility vehicle in the parking lot when the suspect Dunn pulled up next to them in a car and asked them to turn down their music.

Jordan and Dunn exchanged words, and Dunn pulled out a gun and shot eight or nine times, striking Jordan twice. Jordan was sitting in the back seat. No one else was hurt.

And of course the accused murderer is now claiming the same “Stand Your Ground” defense ..... over loud music. :rolleyes: Dunn’s attorney Monday said her client acted responsibly and in self-defense.

Yeah, shooting an unarmed teenager NINE times is totally a justified case of self defense. ](*,) Why is it ALWAYS Florida?!!!!!

*waits for someone trying to claim that the loud music was ‘threatening’ in 5… 4… 3…*

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This is why we Brits don't have liberal gun laws

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Originally Posted by Hard-up1

When you obsess and focus on these two cases, and ignore the much larger number of black-on-black teen murders, you effectively portray black teens as some sort of martyrs to racism in Florida. Although these two instances seem to be just that, by remaining silent on the hundreds of other murders of black teens, by blacks, you create more propaganda than concern.

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that doesn't have anything to do with the thread.

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Originally Posted by refujiunderground

that doesn't have anything to do with the thread.

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It's not like he was offering a recipe for chocolate chip cookies.

Hard-up1 mad, yo.


Attachment 901942

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/bvvc.pdf

:##:

There's lots of scary statistics in this report.

Thousands and thousands of murders and bashings.

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Originally Posted by refujiunderground

that doesn't have anything to do with the thread.

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Don't pay attention to hard-up. He doesn't bring proof and when he tries to discuss a topic he won't address what others are saying... he'll only manipulate.

He won't address the real problems in this country... because it's an attack on his hypersensitive natuer.

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Originally Posted by JayHawk

Well loud music isnt threatening but what were the words?


J/K....

Let's face it as human beings we are animals.... just look back a day or two to black Friday and how many assaults and a few murders over cheap plastic shit.....

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If anyone actually physically comes up to my vehicle which I'm sitting in, even if it's just to ask a question or something, I already feel defensive/encroached on. I can't see how anything people did while sitting in their own vehicle could be remotely construed as provocatively aggressive.

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Originally Posted by Hard-up1

Race IS relevant, which is my entire point. Looking for a spectre of white-on-black racism and finding it, no matter how isolated, doesn't make it valid as a general criticism of American culture, nor even Floridian.

When you obsess and focus on these two cases, and ignore the much larger number of black-on-black teen murders, you effectively portray black teens as some sort of martyrs to racism in Florida. Although these two instances seem to be just that, by remaining silent on the hundreds of other murders of black teens, by blacks, you create more propaganda than concern.

The onus is not on me to raise concern over murders in the US if that is not my quest, but it is my concern to see arguments presented in context with reality instead of hysteria.

My sensitivities are not at stake, but balanced perspective, integrity of facts, and the portrayal of reality are. There is no prerequisite in Hot Topics of agreeing with the OP's premise in order to be allowed to voice opinions in debates, and starting another race thread on JUB is inherently engaging in debate.

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I'll explain to you why it's relevant. These stupid stand your ground laws absolutely reek of good old boy vigilantism and cowboy mentality and every non white person out there with a decently strong sense of self-preservation upon hearing about these laws probably has the same reaction I did: concern that these laws are little but an excuse for overaggressive, trigger happy people coming up to you, creating a confrontation, and then shooting you under "stand your ground" and claiming they felt threatened.

That's why it being white-on-black or white-on-minority strikes a special chord in regard to these laws. If you have 10,000 cases of black people going up to other black people, initiating an altercation and then shooting them and defending it with "stand your ground" laws, then bring them up for discussion. Otherwise you're not making any point.

Teenagers can be bloody bloody irritating.

Just saying...

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Originally Posted by Harke the Boeotarch

Teenagers can be bloody bloody irritating.

Just saying...

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More irritating are adults with guns who have no respect for life and are worried about other people playing their music loud for two minutes while your white trash girlfriend is getting more wine for you to get drunk with. Now he's charged with murder, how irritating is that?

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Originally Posted by Beachguyj

.... for two minutes ...

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Did you just invent that detail?

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Originally Posted by Beachguyj

More irritating are adults with guns who have no respect for life and are worried about other people playing their music loud for two minutes while your white trash girlfriend is getting more wine for you to get drunk with. Now he's charged with murder, how irritating is that?

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Yeah people with guns who GO OUT OF THEIR WAY to confront someone while carrying a weapon and from all appearances INTENDING to create a confrontation, and then going "oh I felt threatened, I stood my ground and shot them." That's what happened with Trayvon and it most certainly looks like what happened here too.

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Originally Posted by Beachguyj

More irritating are adults with guns who have no respect for life and are worried about other people playing their music loud for two minutes while your white trash girlfriend is getting more wine for you to get drunk with. Now he's charged with murder, how irritating is that?

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Those teens are never going to play loud music in that neighborhood anymore...

Another good point I saw on another site is that they guy fled and hid and tried to get away with it, there is no way that can called stand your ground, if it was he would have called 911 and explained what happened.

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Originally Posted by Harke the Boeotarch

Those teens are never going to play loud music in that neighborhood anymore...

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Maybe they won't, maybe they will, and others might. Loud music is not a death sentence in the US.

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Originally Posted by Beachguyj

Another good point I saw on another site is that they guy fled and hid and tried to get away with it, there is no way that can called stand your ground, if it was he would have called 911 and explained what happened.

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Maybe they won't, maybe they will, and others might. Loud music is not a death sentence in the US.

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It's completely and utterly legal before 11pm.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought stand your ground was meant to protect those who kill someone while protecting themselves or their homes - regardless of the race of either party. If it is being exploited or misused in the court system, that's another problem entirely. It doesn't sound like the law really applies in this case; the shooter's attempt to use it as a defense should play out as recognizably bogus - our court systems doing the job they were designed to do.

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Originally Posted by ixthrock

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought stand your ground was meant to protect those who kill someone while protecting themselves or their homes - regardless of the race of either party. If it is being exploited or misused in the court system, that's another problem entirely. It doesn't sound like the law really applies in this case; the shooter's attempt to use it as a defense should play out as recognizably bogus - our court systems doing the job they were designed to do.

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I believe stand your ground covers shooting someone out in a public place. The law already recognizes the right to self defense in the home without needing a special stand your ground law.

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Originally Posted by kevbo

I sincerely doubt it was as simple as that.

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The fact of the matter is he was a defenseless teenager. The article even says he was shot and killed in the backseat of the vehicle, which would suggest that he didn't get physical with Dunn first. Even if he did threaten him verbally that in no way warrants a shooting.

I just hope it doesn't take as long to prosecute Dunn as it did with Zimmerman, and hopefully we can get these gun laws under control.

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Originally Posted by Beachguyj

More irritating are adults with guns who have no respect for life and are worried about other people playing their music loud for two minutes while your white trash girlfriend is getting more wine for you to get drunk with. Now he's charged with murder, how irritating is that?

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Yea kinda scares me a bit as I do play my music loud sometimes... not after 11pm... but when I'm out driving during the day. I think the guy shot the kid because he just didn't like the kid or his music. The self defense defense is utterly ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by ixthrock

…I thought stand your ground was meant to protect those …

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Lawyer Robin Lemonidis didn't indicate if she would use Florida's Stand Your Ground law to defend her client
http://global.christianpost.com/news...0U5pHs9sh4T.99

Shot in the back seat. I think we may have found Biggie and Tupac's killer, didn't know he was a serial killer til now.