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Joe Biden is the reason president Obama finally came out in support of gay rights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Springer
And he is the reason four (count 'em - FOUR!) states voted on Tuesday to support gay marriage.
You owe that man an enormous debt of gratitude.
From the artcileQuote:
Originally Posted by aagold76
that some students were heard shouting racial epithets about Obama and African Americans in general.
At least the racists have returned to owning their racism.
I grew tired of people who were openly and proudly racist for years suddently disavowing racism because Rush or Ann or Glennie or whatever pundit they were listening to told them they aren't racist and they began repeating it.
Correction: Biden's gaffe was the reason Obama evolved about gay marriage.Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Rexx
That's exactly my point. You owe that man a huge debt of gratitude. His "gaffe" (where he "accidentally" revealed his support of gay rights) is probably the reason four states have now supported your right to marry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Springer
You seem to have a penchant, jack, for attacking those who have helped you beyond measure. You call him an "idiot" and an "embarrassment" because he has done so much good for you personally, for gays in particular, and for the nation in general.
Overall though, the man is an idiot. Very unstable. The city fool.
no one knows if it was a gaffe or a strategy. [Text: Removed by Moderator] calling the VP of US the city fool is rich...it's all an opinion.
May it be a long 12 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by rareboy
on gay rights, this is what to expect...
"The big issue that Republicans are going to have to wrestle with is the Hispanic issue. It's not the social issues. You're not going to make the party pro-choice and pro-gay rights and think you've made the Republican party the party that's the popular party. We have a party like that. It's the Democratic Party." - Ari Fleischer, former Bush White House press secretary, speaking on CNN.
If you don't see how calculated his behavior is, sir, I'd say you're blind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Springer
Fortunately the main stream of the republican party feels it has done no wrong either or that going to the middle was a mistake. I suspect unless something changes significantly they will put up another completely unqualified stark raving manipulative liar in 2016 as well. Many continue to blame the "folks with their hands out" and claim that the users outnumber the smart diligent republicans.Quote:
Originally Posted by rareboy
We can only hope they keep that attitude and fail to get behind anything resembling a national candidate. Just more loss and obscurity for that party until they change their mindset.
So the choice facing Republicans is,Quote:
Originally Posted by JayHawk
- Continue to fail whilst waiting for Americans to "just wake up and see what's really going on!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!1!!!one!!!!" or
- Become Democrats in their political attitudes, values, and policies.
No not become democrats. Not in the least. Honestly if there were a substantial conservative party that did not believe I was less than human or that women should thank god when raped then i might vote for them again..... might.
If you recall Obama kept the Bush financial team and Fed and he kept the Secretary of Defense. There are things long standing democrats are simply not qualified to do for this nation. However the republican party is voting off hate vice a new path.
I think they will either evolve or a libertarian party will begin to eclipse them as a party....
If the parties agree on what a secretary of defence should look like, how does that make Democrats any more or less qualified than Republicans on defence issues? And don't forget that Obama was more or less consulted in the proposed handling of the 2008/2009 financial crisis; he owns the economic decisions to begin intervention as much as the Republicans do.Quote:
Originally Posted by JayHawk
And don't forget the Democrats with decades of skillful economic acumen going back to Clinton's days when the economy was growing robustly and the budget was actually balancing… I'm hard-pressed to think of anything that Republicans can do better for your country than Democrats, other than blame women for failing to appreciate the gift of rape babies and blaming gays for causing hurricanes. (We get a pass on global warming though).
I guess what I'm wondering is, how would "a substantial conservative party," that would deserve a shot at power, differ from "a substantial Democratic party" other than in their attitudes towards the rest of humanity?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Springer
The man is "an idiot" because he supports what is right.
He is "unstable" because he brings what is right to public discussion.
He is "the city fool" because he has done so much to make the lives of so many Americans so much better.
Would that I could be so idiotic, unstable, and foolish. What America desperately needs is more of these qualities that Republicans despise and mock.
I expect a more involved -- and public -- Mormon Church.
That's an easy fix. Next time, $12 billion.Quote:
Originally Posted by JB3
He's an idiot for making statements like this . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Rexx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c23RegP8lU
Wonder who the 3 guys are? I'm guessing Obama, Carter, Clinton
Jeez Jack... can one be really this desperate? Get a grip... Biden is a great Vice President. And he's a human being like the rest of us.
It does seem like Biden does say some things that he doesn't think through, but that is a bit extreme calling him an idiot. He has helped us, and saying intimately is an ok way to say that, right? Maybe I've confused my own English.
The point is those republican players stayed operating in the democratic administration instead of Obama ousting them for political appointees who would be less versed on the current and quite imminent issues: War and Financial collapse.Quote:
Originally Posted by bankside
I think what I am saying and what I have very thoroughly convinced many of my cohorts is that Obama is carrying on most of the same values that were normally considered republican ideas. Low taxes for the most of us, strong military and effective employment when provoked internationally. While at the same time embracing gay marriage, equal rights, healthcare, equal pay for women, accepting those 11 million illegals who live here anyway, immigration reform to keep it from happening again like after Reagan accepted all the illegals that were here. Essentially Obama looks like a moderate republican or a Socially liberal conservative.
I think for this country to go forward we need a progressive party that is leaning left and pushing for outrageous ideas about how much the government does for the people while at the same time having a sane conservative party that keeps it fair minded. That is not what we have but it is what I would desire.
Ask any true liberal and they will agree Obama is much more conservative than they would have guessed and it is not just because of the republican house or the crazy ass tea party. That is just the way Obama believes things should be in many instances.
Truly.Quote:
Originally Posted by JayHawk
HA! All the conservatives are Democrats these days!
All Hail the Green Party!
http://www.gp.org/index.php
Huh!!! I dont know if your making a funny but that isnt what I was saying.... so either it is over my head or over yours.... lolQuote:
Originally Posted by TX-Beau
No way... fruit loops ... I would lgo with a Libertarian Party before the great unwashed (literally) masses out hugging trees and recycling their pee.......Quote:
Originally Posted by TX-Beau
I was being funny, but there is no universe in which Libertarians are progressives. A lot of them are pissed off Republicans and they have been known to nominate virulent homophobes for president.
Say what you will about tree huggers, but they always support your right to be you and equal.
Meh I have never paid ten seconds of attention to one of their candidates. I posted about the non competitive candidate debate but I didn't watch it because it would be a waste of my time. The idea that the government should get the fuck out of my way if I am not harming anyone else - marijuana use, hot gay man sex, gay marriage, and so many other issues are what makes it appeal to me...Quote:
Originally Posted by TX-Beau
Yeah but the rest of their policy make it unlikely we would last long as a country so that really doesnt work out well for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by TX-Beau
If you recall Obama kept the Bush financial team and Fed and he kept the Secretary of Defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by JayHawk
Or more specifically Goldman Sachs.
I read recently that the Libertarian Party is giving up Presidential Politics and will be focusing on local elections from this point forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by JayHawk
I tried to find a link to support my statement, but they're still all over the place...even when "googled." ;)
Maybe, unlike Republicans, Obama was more focused on Domestic Issues, rather than to get into a "cat fight" with Republicans over a Cabinet Seat.Quote:
Originally Posted by bankside
And it was (is?) entirely possible to serve in a President's Cabinet (Even if you were an opposing party's nominee). Last I check.
I differ in the semantics somewhat, in that Obama asked for the consultation because he was just as in the dark as the rest of America.Quote:
Originally Posted by bankside
You gloss over the fact that Obama wasn't speaking to the Clinton's, his election team, his wife's election team, or having anything to do with President Clinton beyond a few tired campaign warriors who got Democrats elected, and needed a job.Quote:
Originally Posted by banksise
Just trying to keep it real. ;)
Except to fuck each other over, and to toss one of your caucus bases under a bus for "political expediency."Quote:
Originally Posted by bankside
Sounds a lot like Republicans in a way, except they'd rather do it on a broader scale, while not having to make a commitment unless you're a hair on fire Right Wing Evangelical, our a tin foil hat wearing Tea Party Member.
And that. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by bankside
Oh! Oh! :wave:Quote:
Originally Posted by bankside
First off it would make a few heads explode to discover that many of us aren't as "far apart" as either the Democratic Party or the Republican Party would have us to believe.
Secondly, neither of the political parties, or their "media owners" (regardless of their political leaning) are eager for us to know that truth.
Let's face it!
Compromise, reconciliation, and Bipartisanship doesn't sell!
It doesn't help to raise campaign funds.
it doesn't keep us hating on each other as groups, or as Americans.
So yeah!
The sooner we get on THAT bandwagon, the sooner we might actually start seeing some change.
I'm must saying. ;)
I have thought for quite some time that the push was to keep it balanced and close because it sells. I really do think it is the case. That is why Chris Christie acting above the fray was so abnormal in a election cycle...Quote:
Originally Posted by centexfarmer
So are you suggesting that he might have "gone off script?"Quote:
Originally Posted by JayHawk
No I think he is a genuine guy. I think that is also the reason he did not align himself with Romney overtly. He would have said something truthful that destroyed Romney.Quote:
Originally Posted by centexfarmer
Before we blow too much sunshine up Christie's ass:
"I'm a guy who tells the truth all the time," Christie said Wednesday after visiting a volunteer fire department on Long Beach Island, which is still under a mandatory evacuation order. "If the president of the United States did something good, I'm going to say he did something good.
"But it doesn't take away for a minute the fact that I was the first governor in America to endorse Mitt Romney, that I traveled literally tens of thousands of miles for him, raised tens of millions of dollars for him and worked harder than any other surrogate in America, other than Paul Ryan," Christie said.
"I'm extraordinarily disappointed," he added. "I put a lot of time and effort into the Mitt Romney campaign from last October when I went to New Hampshire until my last trip for him the Friday before the storm when I went to North Carolina."
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/N...#ixzz2BgSvIuWK
I don't remember this non-partisan Christie who didn't toe the party line either.
I can't name a democrat that didnt carry water for their party. That is what it is to align yourself. He still spoke genuinely and truthfully instead of complaining. If Christie had complained that Obama was ignoring his needs or being less than resourceful then the two million votes could have turned.
The two issues that could have toppled Obama if the republicans had a viable alternate was Benghazi and Sandy.
Whatever dems may or may not have done it's CERTAIN that Christie supported a hateful liar wholeheartedly. He wasn't forced and he's not recanting, in fact he himself says exactly that.
So lets not canonize the man just yet shall we.
I havent cannonized him sweats just a single compliment. Good lord.... the election is over. Please exhale.
Sugarpie, I'm not the one getting catty.
He's in my black book for the gay marriage veto. The difference between 9 states and a FIFTH of the country is so much bigger than NJ...
You appear to be getting all a fluster about me saying Christie says some honest things and he didn't have to.
There's not fluster to be found around here. Christie is a Republican, he's going to stay that way, he had no problem with the platform or the Romney train wreck - he was extremely supportive. Yes he said some nice things about Obama, yes he had to.
He's not Governor of Georgia, what would happen to his career if he came out saying nasty things about Obama and FEMA?
Toast. That's what would have happened. Is he sincere? None of us know really - but as long as he WHOLEHEARTEDLY supports the Republican agenda, he is no friend to me.
Oh I never claimed he was a friend. I don't think any of these people are my friends. They court power and power alone. I am a stepping stone on their way. Obama executive ordered no deportations to solidify his Latino vote and he endorsed same sex marriage to grab our vote. It really is quite that simple.
There were plenty of horrible stories on the shore that could have been used to vilify a federal response. He saw a effective response and said so and he did not have to do that. He could have simply let it occur and said no kind words at all. None. He was genuine and I like that.
Why wasn't Christie's Veto overridden? There are gays everywhere, and local politicians are always the most pragmatic.
Well, I'll give you that he's not venal like Romney, stupid like Bush or a total loon like Bachman, but those are the people he chooses to run with.
There is no way on earth he didn't completely understand that to come out swinging at Obama in that situation was political suicide. Kudos for not being an idiot, there are some of his fellow Pubs who would have done just that.
Doesn't mean it wasn't good for Obama, but he didn't do it because his politics are somehow more palatable than they were back in September.
See the thing is he did not have to come out swinging. He could have just answered questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by TX-Beau
"How has the federal response been Governor"
"The President has allowed FEMA to adequately respond to New Jersey"
Then a few days later as the power outages continued make a demonstrated show of getting support to places getting less than adequate FEMA resources. It would have been easy as pie.
Christie was thoroughly behind the Party so he had their blessing in 2016. he knows the real math behind campaigns.
I hope you're right about Christie thinking there will be moderate Republicans in 4 year, I hope if that's the case that he's right. I'm not going to bet on it though.
Whatever his level of actual altruism. He was smart to do what he did politically speaking. Doing otherwise would have cost him.
I can agree with that to a point. He went above and beyond what he had to do politically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonPirate
Quote:
Because in this country we have a two party system, in government. And the idea is supposed to be that the two sides both come up with ways to confront and fix the real problems facing our country. They both propose possible solutions to our real problems.
That is the essence of the problem. the factual bubble the republican party and half the nation is living inside.Quote:
There are real knowable facts in the world. Let's accept those and talk about how we might approach our problems differently. Let's move on from there. If the Republican party, and the conservative movement, and conservative media are forced to do that by the humiliation they were dealt last night, we will all be better off as a nation.
I have heard that some CEO's are following through on their promise of serious layoffs if Obama was re-elected. Personally, I do not blame Obama for the CEO's stupidity.
He does not have a mandate. Bush never had one either. The only president that's had a mandate since 2000 was Obama in his first term. IF he truly had a mandate, he would have received more support than he did, and the democrats would have closed the gap significantly in the house.Quote:
Originally Posted by GiancarloC
Joe Biden isn't smart enough to have calculated that. Happy accidents, as they say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolyo85