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While reading the Sunday newspaper this morning I was shocked to see an article about visiting Auschwitz, one of the most notorious Nazi death camps. More than one million people, mostly Jews, we're murdered at Auschwitz during WWII. Personally I could never visit it. Could you?
I would, but only to help me understand what it must have been like for the prisoners to see friends and family go for a walk knowing they were never coming back.
There was a woman on The Jeff Probst show and she had overcome get odds.
At one point, she said "just remember that Jews in Auschwitz would trade you for your problems"
The most profound thing Ive heard someone say . . because its true
Yes I would go, it's a part of history, ugly history, but it's something that seems crazy that Hitler only died less than 70 years ago. Many of us know relatives that were alive back then, even if they were children.
What a horrible thought to be living your life one day and then rounded up and killed the next.
Yes. I'd go. It's important to remember gay's were treated the same as the Jews. That's where the pink triangle symbol comes from. The Nazi's used it to identify gay men and women in the camps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_triangle
It would be hard but I'd like to go and show some respect for those that suffered and died there.
Steven.
I visited Auschwitz when I went to Europe after high school. It's a very odd place. Peaceful, quiet, and sad.
.
No, but people must learn the history and its true horror.
much a awsum lands owrld ova keep nazi alive ans well
lot lands is concentration camps fa eons but no say nothin or upset sofa cheese they a no up on it
there go sumthang fa awsum keyboards go sing their balls fa nothin but their cheese
thankyou
rather a surprise that even here this aspect of history seems to have been expunged , vanished . After being liberated by the west the hundreds of thousands of surviving gay men in their own concentration camps ( pink triangle not the Jewish gold star ) being criminals were just moved to nice new Bundesrepublik prisons . If the Jews got the state of Israel the Nazi alterations to the criminal code dealing with gay men were still in place I think until the 70s or 80s . I think in the 90s the Mayor of Berlin made some sort of apologetic speech .
This piece of music, Symphony of Sorrowful Songs by Polish composer, Henryk Górecki, was performed and recorded in Auschwitz.
The most famous segment of the symphony is the second movement, Lento e Largo. The lyrics were found written on the walls of a Gestapo prison cell.
It is probably one of the most haunting pieces of music that you'll ever hear in your life:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miLV0o4AhE4
I do think we are culturally very sinful in implying the Holocaust was principally ( almost exclusively ) against Jews and basically ignoring the millions of gay men , Gypsies , Freemasons , Jehovah's Witnesses that were rounded up and killed .
I did visit and was glad I did. Other than the film which was shown there, it is subdued but sad and important to remember that evil is waiting.....
I was watching Oprah recently ("most memorable guests")>She did a show about Auscwitz
Oprah and Elie Weisel at Auscwitz Part 1
Part 2 - 5 are here: http://www.youtube.com/results?searc....1.yq2f9b8LBQU
No, I don't think I'd be able to mentally/emotionally handle visiting these places.
But I can see why others would make the trip for remembrance or educational purposes.
NO...
I had a hard enough time watching the video GSDX posted...
:(:(:(
No, I don't think I would want to.
It's there as a historical memorial to the dead, but in a freakish way, it is also there for nazi sympathizers for whatever the place means to them too.
This made me cry. What an amazing piece of music.Quote:
Originally Posted by gsdx
No..not particularly.
I've been to Auschwitz. I felt as though I needed to pay my respects. It's hauntingly sad and has always stayed with me. On subsequent visits to Poland I opted not to go. Once is enough.
No, watching films and documentaries and reading books about it is enough for me.
I don't think such horrific evil ever really leaves the place where it happened.
Spoken like a true Scot.Quote:
Originally Posted by BENDERBOY
Same here.Quote:
Originally Posted by BENDERBOY
You pretty much just summed up what I was coming in here to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by BENDERBOY
If offered the chance, I would go. As much as I can study about WW2, one really can find out the REAL horrors of the war in one of two ways... by talking to a survivor of the Holocaust... or visiting the hell itself.
I no offer comes, i'd only go back to Germany for Wakken and to revisit my birthplace.
when I was a kid, my dad took us to visit Dachau
Went there a while back. Such an overwhelming experience.
But what is there? I have seen the gate, the few huts and the big open, flat fields covered in snow.
Are there underground sections? Can you see the shower rooms and gassing rooms? Are there display cabinets with relics and pictures with audio recordings?
I went to the Dachau concentration camp when I was in Germany. I felt that it was very important to see, not only because I am Jewish, but because this is something that everyone should see. They had a museum there which was very educational and contained photographs of so many of the inmates that died there. I had a young and very knowledgeable tour guide who explained everything very well and gave us a good sense of what it might have been like.
They say that those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. This is why the remains of these camps must stay there and must be seen by future generations.
I have been.
Everyone should have to look into an oven where human beings were deposited by the thousands, sometimes not yet dead; gay men, gypsy, jew, communist, asocial women (lesbians) alike.
Since I can walk out alive, it gives me all the strength I need to witness this part of history; when you see a place where live humans were dissected by "political medicine" what does my discomfort matter compared to the suffering that must be understood.
that's the one thing I remember most about our visit to DachauQuote:
Originally Posted by bankside
...My dad took a pic of my brothers and I standing in front of one of those ovens...
I have nightmares after watching horror movies. I couldn't imagine how disturbed I might be after visiting a place such as that.
Nope!!
Once i went to a palm reader and she told me in a past life i died in a nazi concentraction camp
ANOTHER time i went to a palm reader and she said i was in a nazi concentration camp
So either these palm readers were lucky and sold me the same lie, they're all working together, or they were right and knowing my luck i would go to the same camp i died in, have either flashbacks or would somehow die again
Absolutely, Auscwitz is the last place my uncle can be traced to.
I agree with bankside's should.Quote:
Originally Posted by bankside
Massacre and genocide are common features of human society and we ought to reflect on what that means. Auschwitz is a conspicuous example, but let us not forget that we have many from which to choose.
Such places ought to affect us. I hope they will make us better.
I am not Jewish, but I did go to pay respects at Dachau, which is located near Munich. As GuyfromNY said, it was an opportunity to see where some of history's darkest moments took place. I was not prepared for the moving emotional experience it turned out to be. As I walked the grounds and the buildings still standing, I experienced the feelings of sadness, and the hopelessness of those who were imprisoned there. It helped me to better understand the senseless insanity of the Third Reich, and the true bravery of Holocaust survivors.Quote:
Originally Posted by guyfromNY
Nope
(the fact that I won't travel overseas to begin with prevents it, but even not counting that...)
It'd be too sad mentally/emotionally draining to see (even though I could probably handle handle that though)
One big reason I wouldn't is I think the place would also be very creepy/haunting to walk through
<that all said, from a historical point of view it'd be kinda interesting to see>
That would be absolutely incredible! I would go in a heart beat!
I've had the opportunity and chose not to. I have some quite unfashionable personal ethics about exploitation and voyeurism in regards to these kinds of things. I find the whole process of tourism to cites of atrocities horrifying.
Having said that, I have an awareness that my views on this are not "correct" in any sense and I know many people who I respect have chosen to visit former "concentration camps" for the valid reason other JUBbers have stated.
Better to tear it all down and pretend that it didn't happen? This isn't like rubber-necking to get a peek a the bodies as you drive past a traffic accident. To equate it with a 'tourist spot' is a bit of a stretch. This was a place of mass murder on an epic scale - an even which some still insist never happened. It's not maintained to draw in tourists. I mean, it's not a fun place to be, I'm sure. It's there to make people think about the horrors that went on there.Quote:
Originally Posted by ashonfire
People who go there today can walk out any time they want. People who were sent there 70 years ago had no choice, and millions of them never saw the other side of the fence again.
It's a bit of a stretch to suggest he meant it is better to tear it all down and pretend it didn't happen. That's not what I got out of his post at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by gsdx
^ But he implied that it is used as a tourist site rather than a historical site. He implied that it was kept just for tourism.
Did I? That was not my intention. I'm not particularly interested in hijacking this thread with any kind of argument but I would like to emphasise that I don't think humanity should forget about any instances of genocide and I did not and would not suggest that, nor have I suggested that we tear down such places.Quote:
Originally Posted by gsdx
As I said in my post, I can see the validity in other people's reasons for visiting these places but it holds no appeal to me. I strongly dislike bickering about this kind of thing on here. I thought the discussion had been fairly open-minded and interesting so far, and at the risk of coming across sycophantic, I thought the piece you posted was beautiful.
ofs courses it touuuuur ismsssssQuote:
Originally Posted by gsdx
world awsum cultures swim in it fa eons ans still no figa own shit
there go
this was nice picnic
thankyou
wot discova taday ?
# da moon is da MOON #
@ we go visit it make sure? @
Problem is, as you say, we still haven't figured out our own shit, as people in Darfur can attest.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOPPYSECONDS
Memorials and monuments to atrocity are more than picnics. They remind us that we ought to cultivate empathy; for some of us brutes, that is a real discovery.
no say dat or folk no where ta spill their heartfelt ooh dat not niceQuote:
Originally Posted by zoltanspawn
anyway
me no say
it scream out many awsum plot land on planet everyday fa eons up ta latest day include leap day - BOOM - oops
but betta no say or lot world awsum folk upset no discova it or etc so on ans stuff
ans etc ans mor da etc
cue commerical or it snake oil folk of awsum wear
- ooh - da Apublic a saved
thankyou
Full of memories of the horrific sufferings of the dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by pat grimshaw
And I thought I was cynical.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOPPYSECONDS
wot is cynical?Quote:
Originally Posted by zoltanspawn
as say human race no get this far wit out > wot world awsum cultures a littull man no figa ans make all life pay in etc so on ans etc so on
so cheer up
thankyou
Yes and I have seen two already.
Most concentration camp memorial sites today DO mention the other groups. I know for sure about Dachau, but I'd bet Auschwitz, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by csb999
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashonfire
Sorry, but I don't see how to interpret this in any other way than 'tourist attraction'.Quote:
Originally Posted by ashonfire