Bear411 is Racist

[Thundercizzle]

What's been your experience?
http://www.bearzone.com/blog/2006/02/28/bear411-is-racist/

[Alexandre]

Freedom means one can do as one is pleased to.
Why not start a site of your own four your tastes and those who share your tastes?:D

[Rockercub]

^No, freedom doesn't mean you can do anything you please. If someone pays for a membership, you can't deny them the benefits of that membership.

Racism in the gay community has always astounded and saddened me. Being a total white boy, I rarely get to see it directly and, therefore, appreciate these sorts of updates, so I know which sites not to frequent or give my money.

[packomaldito]

Fucking racist guy! There was always something inside me that told me not to join bear411, which never did, and now I get it; I will never support that racist's site, I'm Mexican and I assume that motherfucker doesn't like my chocolate-milk skin color either, but I don't care, he's just another stupid and insignificant human being of the 6 billions that exist in our planet.
So, let's keep enjoying our men and let that jerk die in his white KKK world.

PaCkOMaLdiTo :)

[Thundercizzle]

Freedom means one can do as one is pleased to.
Why not start a site of your own four your tastes and those who share your tastes?:D

Well, BearZone promotes equality for all. You'll notice that I try to put a mix of people of all races and kinds on there, especially in 'Chased of the Day' feature. I'm not out to change what's wrong and corrupt about bear411. But the owner of that site had better hope I never run in to him at a bear event.

[bastard wing]

bear411 is the worst site i've ever been a member of. it was just so confusing and weird that i gave it up a few days after becoming a member, but this racist thing is pretty outrageous.
granted, he (buddybear) can do as he pleases with his own site but while he not only alienates people of color he also alienates all the other members of the site with friends and loved ones of color. i don't think that many of the other members share his views and if were still a member i'd feel pretty cheated..
yeah this sucks :mad:

[Cuddly Bear]

Well I don't really know the owner of the site, I actually made two good friends that like me very much all because I went to that website. Plus have like 50 contacts many of them are colored people that I enjoy talking to. I'm pretty sure a lot of people have negative comments on bear411's service and how the owner treats certain people okay, but others with complete shit. Hopefully someone out there makes a better website that doesn't have any racist people behind it.

[Thundercizzle]

What's really annoying is that I wasn't bothering anyone, or breaking any of the rules. I've never even talked to anyone there who didn't talk to me first. And without warning, or explination, he just deleted my entire profile as if it was never there and no one would notice. That sucks.

[Sir Les]

Thanks Thundercizzle, for alerting us to this jerk. I will avoid this site. I'm white, but black bears are my favorite. Big chocolate bear dick slamming up my hairy white butt and making my big hairy belly jiggle is my idea of Heaven, and a site that excludes black men is a waste of my time as well as insulting and racist. When will people learn; there's only one race, the Human Race?
BTW, LOVE your galleries. They're so extensive, I still haven't made my way through all of them, but the trip is fun.
Oh, and one other thing, you're hot.

[Cherokee_Lover]

Thank you, Thundercizzle, for letting us know about this racist buttwipe. Like Rockercub said, there is racism in the gay community. I can speak about that firsthand being Cherokee. I'm also pretty active in Native American rights and issues. I'm an in your face guy. I won't take shit for being NDN or gay.

I'm originally from GA and my mom and I ran into racists there for sure. She still lives there and it never ends. I run into racists HERE in Delaware where I live now, and some of the gay men (no, offense, but most of them are white) here have all these bizarre notions about Native Americans. Some of them are surprised to meet an NDN; I guess they thought we were all dead! I'm glad the Nanticoke tribe is near where I live, but most of the people in the tribe are private people as I am. Can't blame us what with all the racial profiling that goes on here in lower slower southern DE.

And if any guy meets a Native American guy and is interested, please don't (and these are only a few things that have been said to me and more than once I might add) say:
"Can I smoke your peace pipe?"
"Hey, let's pretend like I'm a lonely mountain man and you're a horny Indian and you wanna fuck me."
"I'll be a settler who's wife is away and you come in and rape me."
"I love Native American spirituality." Me: "Oh yeah? What do you know about so-called Native American spirituality?" Guy: "Oh nothing, but I'd love for you to teach me." Me: "Then how can you 'love' something you don't know anything about? Besides, every Native religion is different from each other. There isn't a generic Native spirituality." Horny guys don't like it when you get all serious.

Anyway, enough of my rant. Peace.

[Stryfe]

I'm glad I've never been on that site before. I bet being asian that I'll be deleted too. Oh well.

[prudyprudestein]

What's up with these guys who are racist, biased, etc? I'm white but enjoy men of all races, sizes, and shapes. I may not go to bed with them all but certainly wouldn't disrepect them as is being done by that guy. I'm glad that are sites that welcome all. Most of us are men who love men. Each of us has different tastes. I'm staying clear of that site.

[chiguy60613]

Well I don't really know the owner of the site, I actually made two good friends that like me very much all because I went to that website. Plus have like 50 contacts many of them are colored people that I enjoy talking to. I'm pretty sure a lot of people have negative comments on bear411's service and how the owner treats certain people okay, but others with complete shit. Hopefully someone out there makes a better website that doesn't have any racist people behind it.

Okay, I'm not trying to start anything. But colored people? We might want to update our references to minorities of color.

[Cuddly Bear]

Sorry, I should of used different ethnic races.

[sparky95]

I don't think we can afford to be racist as gay men- I mean if we want to be treated properly by others we HAVE to treat those different to ourselves the same way! The level of racism at times in the gay community is a constant shock... :(

[Ruby]

And again time for my favorite Quote:


"People have the right to be stupid. Some people abuse that privilege...."

[Kirbster]

This is the dumbest thread I've seen. There's nothing racist on bear411. I'm on that site multiple times a day, and there are black guys and other guys of color all over the place! I've met many black guys on there. I have a lily white friend whose profile was not accepted, so there evidently are some requirements I don't know about, but it's certainly not based on race!

[Thundercizzle]

True or not, it's not "DUMB" to question what's wrong with the site. Evidentally, it's not a site run by a good man. There's proof of that. I only know my experience and what other's have experienced. YOU, are not black so there isn't much that you could understand about this. Sadly, It is a known fact that people are treated differently in this world based on race, among other things. And it's just ignorant or naive not to acknowledge that. I've never heard problems like this about any other site. And I work and promote sites for a living.

[Thundercizzle]

BTW, you might find this upcoming show inciteful: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11394595/

[Kirbster]

YOU, are not black so there isn't much that you could understand about this. Sadly, It is a known fact that people are treated differently in this world based on race...When there are LOTS of blacks on the site, it's obviously not racist. It is indeed DUMB to call a site racist when it's OBVIOUS that it's not. I don't have to be black to understand that!

[integralgonzo]

Thundercizzle, I have read a lot a lot about that show and, and while it might make good ratings, I cannot see any benefit.

For instance, when the white family (as African-Americans) go through any racism thrown at them, surely they cannot feel the same thoughts and despair as those who go through this every day?

I mean , at the back of their minds the idea of " You lot are going to get a big shock" etc is going to affect them.......................rambling, but you might understand what I'm trying to say.

[Zeremonie]

BTW, you might find this upcoming show inciteful: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11394595/

I find it insightful, not inciteful.

I find somewhat of a puzzle that one bear website would post a borderline defamatory article about another potentially opening the door to legal ramifications absent a more substantiated justification.

While I absolutely believe that racism is still rampant in this country, I also think that the growing numbers of individuals living in poverty, and the growing class divide creates a spurious analysis when assessing the impact of race on discrimination. The very influential and important sociologist William Julias Wilson created groundbreaking theories in the late 80s related to class and race, and since that time sociologists have a better understanding of the relationship of class vis-a-vis race.

The show you highlight looks like it will be interesting, but without a complete switch of the socio-economic structure of the family, I fear it will be lacking in any real value in terms of classic participant-observant research.

Just my two cents.

[Thundercizzle]

Ok, you guys are getting to be too much. Point blank: If you're not black an in the US, there are certain experiences that you just can't comprehend. It's that simple. I have experienced much myself that many sociologist couldn't fathom.

Secondly, one spelling error doesn't need to be corrected as if it's ruining the world, and we don't need legal advice from you. I did not say myself that Bear411 is racist in the article. I simply stated FACTS about my experience with the site, and shared what someone else wrote about their experience. Then, I asked what other's experience has been like. If there weren't people of all races coming forward with these same allegations, I wouldn't have shared.

When there are LOTS of blacks on the site, it's obviously not racist. It is indeed DUMB to call a site racist when it's OBVIOUS that it's not. I don't have to be black to understand that!

There are lots of blacks and other ethnic people in this country. Are you going to tell me that there isn't racism in this country then, since there are "LOTS of" ethnic people around?

This is such a touchy subject for some people, and it should be discussed with respect and maturity. The only real purpose of this thread was to pose the question. I've never told anyone what to write. If any ethnic people had a positive experience on bear411, they're more than welcome to write about it. But don't say it's dumb when someone else says that they have had such a negative experience like that. It's insensitive.

[Cuddly Bear]

Well when you bring up about people leaving websites due to negative experiences. I'm sure JUB has had lots of people leave due to negative experiences here, either it being discrimination between race or discrimination between the way a person looks.

Racism happens EVERYWHERE even in the straight world and the gay world. It happens on websites, forums, any place that has a person that might dislike a certain ethnic race.

[BrandonSBCA]

Just thought I would post some new information.

Someone put this up in their blog so maybe it might be a good read.

Reprinted from a journal on livejournal.com


I am done with Bear411. And you should be too.

I have made this declaration before, but it turned out to be a much needed break. Greg has put the final nail in that coffin. Here are his offenses:


Sending me email support information in French. Granted, this is minor, but really...did I send you a support question in French?
Changing my profile without telling me. I'm a comic. It's what I do. I want to get the word out that I am performing at local clubs. In my profile, I put: "See me live at (some venue) on (this date) at (this time)." I got an IM from some random person that said, "What's with your profile?" I looked, and he had changed it to some message demanding: "If you want to post events, please use BearGuide.net". Are you kidding me? I am over his little rule about not selling services in your profile. I'm not selling a service, I'm telling the bear community where they can see me perform if they are interested. RIDICULOUS. Sure, you can argue that it's HIS SITE and it's HIS RULES, but I'm not abusing them. It's called flexibility and customer service. Use it.
Not allowing people onto the site because they don't fit his idea of a bear. All bears do not necessarily like other bears. All twinks do not like other twinks. I'm surprised some Asian chasers made it on to the site. I wonder if they had to purchase a Canadian Visa and had to show registration receipts for at least two bear runs to get in. Talk about discrimination. Then again, it's just a chat and hookup site, who am I to judge? I hope they get enough money so they sponsor a bear event, and enforce the same rules that he does on his site. Wanna come to Bear411 Fest? Great! (Offer not applicable to those I do not deem as a "bear".)
Not responding to support or inquiries about advertising. Not only did I send him a couple of chat messages, but I also emailed him about advertising on Bear411 for my DVD and CD. No reply. You don't want my money? Fine by me. I'll take my business elsewhere. Maybe I should have asked in French.
CENSORING CHAT MESSAGES. Are you fucking kidding me? I did a test yesterday. I had 14 messages waiting for me when I logged in. I replied to each one, and somewhere in the message, I wrote, "Did you join BearCiti.com yet?" No replies. As a second test, I wrote to a friend this morning as told him, "I am sending you a test message after you receive this message. Tell me if you get a second message from me." I wrote him again and tried it a few times. "Did you join BearCiti.com yet?" "Did you join B E A R C I T I dot com?" and "It's a site that starts with the word bear and ends with a word that rhymes with "Titty" and is spelled like the credit card prefix for a bank." No response to either of them. He told me he did not get them.

I'm not putting up with this bullshit any longer. Greg can claim up and down all he wants that he has the bestest and brightest bear communication website in the whole bear world...he can have a big fucking parade up and down bearstreet that he is king of the mountain when it comes to bear chat sites, but I am convinced without a shadow of a doubt that he's a douche.

A Bear's Life Magazine interviewed him in their first issue. I still laugh my ass off and quote this question for the interviewer on a regular basis: "Greg, you're an amazing man. Where do you go from here?" WHAT? An AMAZING MAN? For creating a bear chat site that looks awful, works even worse and is dictated by petty rules, censorship and discrimination within our own bear community? He didn't cure cancer, people. He made a website.

Why do we stick with it? Because it's convenient? Because it was first? Because everyone else did it? I hear endless complaints from people both online and in person about how much people hate Bear411. Yet no one ever does anything about it. They chat on it all the time, and they still hate it. It's funny, Wal*Mart is convenient, but I don't shop there just because it's big and bright and shiny and bigger. If any other business in the gay community were to discriminate who shopped there, or if you went to a bar and you couldn't talk about another bar while in that bar, would you stick around and supprt that business? Not likely. So why do you as a person support his antics?

I was told (while in Berlin) that a bar in Germany, ironically called "Bear", was owned by some douchewad who discriminated and treated his patrons terribly. If you walked in and you fit his definition of "hot" or a bear, you were welcomed with open arms. If you were too fat, too old or not bearish enough, he would either not let you in, or make harsh comments at you to make you feel unwelcome. Guess what? The bear community at large stopped supporting his bar and soon enough, he went out of business.

I challenge everyone to leave Bear411 and join and utilize BearWWW, BearCiti, BearLix, BearWorld, BigMuscleBears or any other site that you can find the same dudes on to chat with or hook up with. I will no longer support Bear411 and will make every effort to get the word out that his antics and ways of running a community focused website are not acceptable any more.

If anyone wants to chat with me, you can find me on BearCiti.com, (or AIM as bobaloorox, or yahoo msgr as bobaloorocks) Sure, you may complain about them too, but it's free, it's got cool features, it looks better, and has an open mind to what the bears want out of a chat site. At least they have a 'Questions? Comments?' link, and they respond to you. In English.

[thevofl]

I can't stand bear411. It is the most frustrating site I have ever used. I use BMB even though I'm not that muscular. Nor, bearish for that matter. It is a better designed site.

[BrandonSBCA]

Yeah someone told me bearciti.com is better. Which I tried, it seems to be a new website so when all the profiles start adding up more and more people will be there.

[Theyoungman]

Whats wrong with you people?

I've been a member of that site since I turn 18 and I'm a multi-mixed race, who is also skinny with minimal muscles. I'm look nothing like a bear except I have hair. Thats it.

So how is it that i've been here for so long and nothing has happend? EVER!

Somehow I think you are mistaken.

[BrandonSBCA]

Whats wrong with you people?

I've been a member of that site since I turn 18 and I'm a multi-mixed race, who is also skinny with minimal muscles. I'm look nothing like a bear except I have hair. Thats it.

So how is it that i've been here for so long and nothing has happend? EVER!

Somehow I think you are mistaken.

Well people have tried joining it and they never get in because the person never lets them make a profile on there. Thundercizzle can't even get a profile on it. I've been on there since I was 19, and I was horrified about this.

[bumcub]

I can't link to the original article - would like to - so can't comment too much.

Thing is, i'm on that site and there seems to be people from all ethnic backgrounds, i've chatted to a few!

I had a white english friend who was sort of cubbish and his profile was denied - o thought maybe he wasn't bearish enough but on looking at the site there are some far east guys, quite young who are not bearish in any way - more twink. So i don't really know why my friend didn't get on. The email was a simple your profile has not been approved with no explanation which didn't help!!

All i'm saying is don't assume something until you have hard facts, but like i say i can't see the original complaint so don't know what happened.

As far as being a racist site - as far as i can see there are loads of profiles from guys of all different ethnic backgrounds so...................

[bodmodkub]

Ok, you guys are getting to be too much. Point blank: If you're not black an in the US, there are certain experiences that you just can't comprehend. It's that simple. I have experienced much myself that many sociologist couldn't fathom.


Ok, I know this is an old thread, but I had to comment on this. You have said the above several times now, and honestly, it's not right at all.
I am Cuban-American, my parents were immigrants. I remember being a little boy and being in a shoe store with my parents and we were speaking spanish. All of a sudden this dude who must have been around 40 came up to us and said "You dirty spics need to go the fuck back to your dirty island" and then he spit in my face. I was 6 years old.

I am NOT black, but I have experienced scenarios like this many times in my life. I also look quite different now adays with all my piercings and tattoos, and I get tons of flack from people about it.

I get very tired of black or African American people saying no one else can understand racism like they can. It's total bullshit. I also hate the fact that many black people feel that black people cannot be racist, when many of them are. Going around calling people crackers, or cholos, or beaners is just as racist as using the N word.

Also, telling people that they can never understand because they aren't black is actually hurting your plight. it pushes people away and alienates them, making them less likely to support you ideas.

Anyway, I'm done babbling. I just had to put my 2 cents in.

[hermanding]

adelante, maldito. ese pendejo envidia tu piel de malteada chocolate - y además tiene menos peligro de cancer de piel
right on paco that fucker envies your chocolate shake skin - and besides you have less danger of skin cancer
ding

[PhtoElctcRxn]

Not allowing people onto the site because they don't fit his idea of a bear.
All bears do not necessarily like other bears. All twinks do not like other twinks. I'm surprised some Asian chasers made it on to the site. I wonder if they had to purchase a Canadian Visa and had to show registration receipts for at least two bear runs to get in. Talk about discrimination. Then again, it's just a chat and hookup site, who am I to judge? I hope they get enough money so they sponsor a bear event, and enforce the same rules that he does on his site. Wanna come to Bear411 Fest? Great! (Offer not applicable to those I do not deem as a "bear".)

Yeah thanks for giving me another reason to hate bear411. I signed up twice and was rejected twice, now I have another reason besides the obvious chaser hatred. So I sent in another profile with the about me saying this:

"This is an IMPORTANT message to the webmaster from a 5'10" 170 lbs vers/top who's looking for a sweet bear of his own: Hey you know what, Greg (Buddybear? You're no buddy of mine!)? Go FUCK YOURSELF! But first, tell me why I wasn't approved. I like bears. I am 21. I filled out the profile properly including the stats section guidelines and a clear picture. Why am I not being approved? I don't want to go on MALE411.com. If I did, I would have signed up for that you blithering moron. So what's was wrong?

It is because I am not "bear" enough for you? Well, why don't you take Chaser off as an option instead of misleading good-looking young men like myself into thinking they have a chance to get on this unfairly exclusive site. I love bears and I know this is hard for a dipshit like yourself to believe but some of them like me too!

I'm sick of the exclusion you and your kind feel you have to enforce because bears are "more masculine" than the typical gay guy. (Ironic, especially since the bear movement started because of the exclusion bears once felt in the gay community.) Just because the bears on this site have more facial and body hair and are naturally bigger than I am doesn't make them any manlier than me.

I thought maybe this time would be different but apparently not. So in conclusion, Greg, you're still are an asshole and it's about time someone told you.

Love,
The Guy who Brought Sexy Back to Fuck You Up!"

As soon as someone tells me on bear411 I get sick. Thanks for the new tip Thundercizzle. When I tell people I wasn't only rejected but recommended to Male411.com they laugh. Thanks for providing a place for me to vent. Bye!

[bodmodkub]

I can't stand bear411. It is the most frustrating site I have ever used. I use BMB even though I'm not that muscular. Nor, bearish for that matter. It is a better designed site.


Whats so frustrating about it? I'll admit it isn't pretty, but it's pretty easy to use. I can see a couple of things that could be more streamlined, but nothing that's a deal breaker.

[Xenarthra]

Okay, guys. I actually have to kinda agree with thundercizzle on this one, but I have to qualify my statement. Bear411 is discriminatory in general towards non-hairy thin guys.

My own story; check out my profiles on bearwww and bear411:
http://bearwww.com/xenarthra
http://bear411.com/disprofframe.php3?name=asnchasrgenx&from=1

First of all, I had a horrible time even getting onto the site. When I first applied for a profile, I used my typical bearwww profile. I think most would agree that what I say on my bearwww profile is quite candid, friendly, and somewhat neutral sexually, at least the first picture (which was the I was using when I first submitted). It also uses my usual Xenarthra screenname. Fine, right? Well, when I submitted my profile, first it took a while and then I received a return e-mail. It basically said, "we do not feel you are right for this site, but you should consider gay411.com instead." At this point, I was not so much astounded, as puzzled and confused. I figured, "there must be some kind of mistake, why would I take the effort to apply to a bear site if I was not interested in bears? I'll make it a bit more clear that I like bears." so, I changed my profile a bit clarifying the type of men I like, stating the bears and mature men and submitted my profile again. I waited for a day. What did I find when I returned? Another rejection e-mail.

At this point there should be no mistake that I am being rejected for a reason. Could it be the content of my profile text? No. If you argue on that, I need only direct you to the numerous profiles on bear411 where the bear in question only has minimal or no text in his profile, yet had no trouble signing up for the site. My picture, then. Mind you, check the first picture of my bearwww profile, which is the one I usually submit to sites first. Sexually neutral, displays my face and body type, not unfriendly-looking. Yes, I look like a twink--thin, no facial hair. As additional evidence, obviously the webmaster had seen my profile because he had directed me to another site for twinks (gay411)-- twice--; meaning that he read my profile bear-love and all, saw my picture, and judged me for a particular site. That is, despite me saying, I'm a chaser, I love bears, the webmasted still discriminated against me. It also galls me that he presumed that he would know my sexual preferences *better* than what I explicitly stated in my profile.

I was determined to see what I needed to do to get on the site, so I revamped my profile to scream nothing but "I'm gonna f*ck alot of bears and your other members will be happy" and I changed my username to AsnChasrGenX (asian chaser generation X) and I included a picture with me and my partner (who is a bear). Only then, only then, did I finally get accepted into the site.

Now imagine, you a have a bearish pic and you include no content in your profile and you are waved in. Meanwhile, I have to change my name, my picture, and everything on my profile to be centered around bears to get on this site and I have to try three times. Am I being treated differently? Yes. But one might say, you got into the site eventually, didn't you? The discrimination comes through the hassle I got from the site just to get my foot in the door. For example, blacks could ride the bus, they just had to go to the back of the bus. I ask you, given my treatment compared to people with even the slightest hint of bearishness, was I not being treated as a secondhand citizen?

One might ask a good question, "If you had such a bad time of getting on the site, why do you still have a profile there?" Ultimately, I have a very good bear friend of mine who uses the site solely. And if I am to communicate with him meaningfully on a regular basis, I have to use the site. I value my friendship with him and several other people on the site more important than the discrimination I received coming through the door--others have faced worse, far worse-- but it is discrimination all the same. But this is the subtle kind that pains me the most, the prejudices that come from the ones who you think should be the most welcoming to you. That's the kind that hurts the worst.

In summary, I submitted my profile several times, each time with the webmaster denying my part in the community and presuming on my sexual preferences, until I changed my entire online identity. Compared to the experiences of guys-with-facial-hair, they have a relatively hassle-free time. Perhaps it doesn't discriminate against people of color per se, but I'm sure he discriminates against thin, beardless chasers, unless they make themselves out to be bear-whores. Being a person of color might be another mark against you if you are also thin and hairless.

[thevofl]

Whats so frustrating about it? I'll admit it isn't pretty, but it's pretty easy to use. I can see a couple of things that could be more streamlined, but nothing that's a deal breaker.

The lack of a decent search feature, (hell I would take a barely adequate one). Also when trying to logging in, it tells me to sign up for an account. The fact that any profile modifications need to be reviewed. And you can't do them more frequently than once a week without paying. Censoring / modifying profiles. Not having men beyond those that are one man's version of "bearish" (after a while it gets monotonous and common). Nags are all over the place making you pay.

By comparison, my BMB profile is not censored, modified. It allows external links. It has a decent search feature. I like tall men. I can search for that on BMB but not on Bear411.

I can go on and on. For the sake of sanity, I will not.

[BrandonSBCA]

I can't link to the original article - would like to - so can't comment too much.

Thing is, i'm on that site and there seems to be people from all ethnic backgrounds, i've chatted to a few!

I had a white english friend who was sort of cubbish and his profile was denied - o thought maybe he wasn't bearish enough but on looking at the site there are some far east guys, quite young who are not bearish in any way - more twink. So i don't really know why my friend didn't get on. The email was a simple your profile has not been approved with no explanation which didn't help!!

All i'm saying is don't assume something until you have hard facts, but like i say i can't see the original complaint so don't know what happened.

As far as being a racist site - as far as i can see there are loads of profiles from guys of all different ethnic backgrounds so...................

http://bobaloo.livejournal.com/525205.html

[BrandonSBCA]

Okay, guys. I actually have to kinda agree with thundercizzle on this one, but I have to qualify my statement. Bear411 is discriminatory in general towards non-hairy thin guys.

My own story; check out my profiles on bearwww and bear411:
http://bearwww.com/xenarthra
http://bear411.com/disprofframe.php3?name=asnchasrgenx&from=1

First of all, I had a horrible time even getting onto the site. When I first applied for a profile, I used my typical bearwww profile. I think most would agree that what I say on my bearwww profile is quite candid, friendly, and somewhat neutral sexually, at least the first picture (which was the I was using when I first submitted). It also uses my usual Xenarthra screenname. Fine, right? Well, when I submitted my profile, first it took a while and then I received a return e-mail. It basically said, "we do not feel you are right for this site, but you should consider gay411.com instead." At this point, I was not so much astounded, as puzzled and confused. I figured, "there must be some kind of mistake, why would I take the effort to apply to a bear site if I was not interested in bears? I'll make it a bit more clear that I like bears." so, I changed my profile a bit clarifying the type of men I like, stating the bears and mature men and submitted my profile again. I waited for a day. What did I find when I returned? Another rejection e-mail.

At this point there should be no mistake that I am being rejected for a reason. Could it be the content of my profile text? No. If you argue on that, I need only direct you to the numerous profiles on bear411 where the bear in question only has minimal or no text in his profile, yet had no trouble signing up for the site. My picture, then. Mind you, check the first picture of my bearwww profile, which is the one I usually submit to sites first. Sexually neutral, displays my face and body type, not unfriendly-looking. Yes, I look like a twink--thin, no facial hair. As additional evidence, obviously the webmaster had seen my profile because he had directed me to another site for twinks (gay411)-- twice--; meaning that he read my profile bear-love and all, saw my picture, and judged me for a particular site. That is, despite me saying, I'm a chaser, I love bears, the webmasted still discriminated against me. It also galls me that he presumed that he would know my sexual preferences *better* than what I explicitly stated in my profile.

I was determined to see what I needed to do to get on the site, so I revamped my profile to scream nothing but "I'm gonna f*ck alot of bears and your other members will be happy" and I changed my username to AsnChasrGenX (asian chaser generation X) and I included a picture with me and my partner (who is a bear). Only then, only then, did I finally get accepted into the site.

Now imagine, you a have a bearish pic and you include no content in your profile and you are waved in. Meanwhile, I have to change my name, my picture, and everything on my profile to be centered around bears to get on this site and I have to try three times. Am I being treated differently? Yes. But one might say, you got into the site eventually, didn't you? The discrimination comes through the hassle I got from the site just to get my foot in the door. For example, blacks could ride the bus, they just had to go to the back of the bus. I ask you, given my treatment compared to people with even the slightest hint of bearishness, was I not being treated as a secondhand citizen?

One might ask a good question, "If you had such a bad time of getting on the site, why do you still have a profile there?" Ultimately, I have a very good bear friend of mine who uses the site solely. And if I am to communicate with him meaningfully on a regular basis, I have to use the site. I value my friendship with him and several other people on the site more important than the discrimination I received coming through the door--others have faced worse, far worse-- but it is discrimination all the same. But this is the subtle kind that pains me the most, the prejudices that come from the ones who you think should be the most welcoming to you. That's the kind that hurts the worst.

In summary, I submitted my profile several times, each time with the webmaster denying my part in the community and presuming on my sexual preferences, until I changed my entire online identity. Compared to the experiences of guys-with-facial-hair, they have a relatively hassle-free time. Perhaps it doesn't discriminate against people of color per se, but I'm sure he discriminates against thin, beardless chasers, unless they make themselves out to be bear-whores. Being a person of color might be another mark against you if you are also thin and hairless.

Yep. For me, I'm a cub so I was accepted automatically. But when I read something like what you put up, it disgusts me that the only way he accepted you was to put a picture of your partner up so he would know "Oh he must like bears because he has a picture of a bear standing next to him"

I don't know, I use bear411 because I have about 50 friends on there that I talk to sometimes. I'm on it every day, it's just sad that a lot of guys who admire bears never get accepted because they don't fit his likes.

[James]

Hate to be a necro-poster, but I just ran in to this as well. I tried to create a profile and even made a page, when I submitted it for approval, I was denied. I sent an email back to find out why, and I never got a response. Apparently, you have to look a certain way to even be a chaser on there. I'm done with them too. The site admin can go rot in hell for all I care.

He suggested I join Male411.com instead. I simply stated in my email that I did not want to join that site because there was already a random assortment of men on Male411. I wanted to join bear411 because they are the type of men I like. Never heard back though. Shame. I'm actually on BiggerCity.com right now, but it caters more to the chub than bear type :(

[BrandonSBCA]

Yeah you're not missing much on bear411 just guys that will say you're cute and that's it, no talk.

[Theyoungman]

I just don't get it guys... Maybe I got lucky because I swear to from what you guys are telling, I swear to god that I should have been denied too, but I never have been nor recieved email from them. I know it has noting to do with my bosy hair because I have never posted a photo of my bare body. I always had clothes on. Maybe its my face. I don't know. Well if you guys hate Bear411 then thats ok. I don't. I don't have a reason to. I chat with my friends there just like any other site I'm on.

I do't know.

[thevofl]

Yeah you're not missing much on bear411 just guys that will say you're cute and that's it, no talk.

I checked my guestbook and the last nine entries were:

09 Dec 2006
You're Sexy

31 Oct 2006
You're Cute

21 Oct 2006
You're Cute

19 Oct 2006
You're Handsome

15 Oct 2006
HUGS

09 Oct 2006
HUGS

08 Oct 2006
You're Cute

07 Oct 2006
Woof !

07 Oct 2006
Woof !

[fireside]

So from this conversation--which appears to be old, but the joy of forums is that no conversation is old as long as you're reading it oblivious to dates--which bear/bear lover sites should I consider? I'm actually a mix of person, as is everyone, but I like a wide variety of people, so I figure may as well check it out, eh?

[coofiny]

I just don't get it guys... Maybe I got lucky because I swear to from what you guys are telling, I swear to god that I should have been denied too, but I never have been nor recieved email from them. I know it has noting to do with my bosy hair because I have never posted a photo of my bare body. I always had clothes on. Maybe its my face. I don't know. Well if you guys hate Bear411 then thats ok. I don't. I don't have a reason to. I chat with my friends there just like any other site I'm on.

I do't know.

with you as the exception, it doesnt disprove the fact that the admin is definately selective with who he accepts on his site.

[BrandonSBCA]

I checked my guestbook and the last nine entries were:

09 Dec 2006
You're Sexy

31 Oct 2006
You're Cute

21 Oct 2006
You're Cute

19 Oct 2006
You're Handsome

15 Oct 2006
HUGS

09 Oct 2006
HUGS

08 Oct 2006
You're Cute

07 Oct 2006
Woof !

07 Oct 2006
Woof !

Yep and this is mine.

24 Jan 2007: HUGS
24 Jan 2007: Woof !
21 Jan 2007: I like You !
18 Jan 2007: Woof !
18 Jan 2007: You're Sexy
15 Jan 2007: You're Hot !
14 Jan 2007: Great Pictures !
13 Jan 2007: You're Hot !
13 Jan 2007: You're Handsome
11 Jan 2007: You're Adorable
08 Jan 2007: I like You !
02 Jan 2007: Great Profile
30 Dec 2006: Woof !
27 Dec 2006: I like You !
22 Dec 2006: You're Sexy
14 Dec 2006: You're Hot !
12 Dec 2006: Great Pictures !
11 Dec 2006: I like You !
06 Dec 2006: You're Hot !
05 Dec 2006: You're Sexy
27 Nov 2006: You're Hot !
19 Nov 2006: Woof !
31 Oct 2006: You're Adorable
30 Oct 2006: HUGS
29 Oct 2006: You're Hot !

[maxxximum]

arent bears generally retardedly exclusive? which is why i dont bother "chasing"...good thing i find only a select few attractive. even my attraction to these kind is kept strictly private, after seeing the even the slightly beefier strippers copping shit from my mates hehe.

[thevofl]

arent bears generally retardedly exclusive?

Funny, sad, true

[Theyoungman]

arent bears generally retardedly exclusive? .

What do you mean by that? What I mean is that I don't understand.

[BrandonSBCA]

arent bears generally retardedly exclusive? which is why i dont bother "chasing"...good thing i find only a select few attractive. even my attraction to these kind is kept strictly private, after seeing the even the slightly beefier strippers copping shit from my mates hehe.

Well they're a lot more better than twinks, which is why I don't go for chasers.

[maxxximum]

Well they're a lot more better than twinks, which is why I don't go for chasers.



i dont think physical sexual attraction has anything to do with their exclusivity as a group, but whatever floats your boat.

[Xenarthra]

arent bears generally retardedly exclusive?

What do you mean by that? What I mean is that I don't understand.

Do you mean you don't understand his use of the non-word 'retardedly'? or, Do you mean you don't understand the general concept he is trying to convey?

If you meant the former, I think maxxx did not mean it as the literal meaning of retarded as in "slowed down," but as in the conversational usage of the word interchangeable with the word "idiotically." It's a really odd word for me to see there too. I keep getting the image of bears moving in slow motion. Maybe I'm just weird like that.

If you meant the latter, then that's a whole different story. Bears are people, too, and they can be cliquish and form groups that seem unwelcoming to outsiders. That may be hard to comprehend, given that bears are said to be more welcoming than the gay community at large. I'd say the best way to experience this is to attend a large bear run or go to a packed bear bar for the first time. Depending on the individuals present, some may talk to you, some may mind their own business, some may feel weirded out if you come out from nowhere talking to them. Some only like other bears and feel like they cannot relate to much younger men (read chasers) and thus one may feel a distinct negative vibe from them if they read you as possibly hitting on them. Therefore, a chaser can feel excluded from the community when entering this mixed crowd, especially if his expectations are different from the treatment he receives. I think that what he means when he asks the rhetorical question 'are or are not bears quite exclusive.' I've had mixed feelings on this in the past because sometimes its an issue and sometimes its not depending on who you meet and how they react towards you. Also, it's not clear to me whether this applies to bears or in general meeting people who already know each other.

Sorry if I overexplained, I couldn't figure out what you didn't understand about his question.

Also, sorry everyone for writing tomes and tomes in my posts recently. I've been taking this comparative lit. class so I'm stuck in writing analysis mode... :-p

[BrandonSBCA]

i dont think physical sexual attraction has anything to do with their exclusivity as a group, but whatever floats your boat.

Well maybe I missed your whole meaning of it since you worded it differently, thankfully Xenarthra explained it to me. Even thought the bear community and some of it's bear men might be exclusive I feel more accepted there than I would with in a opposite group.

[ohman64]

What kills me about the bear community is, they are supposed to be the ones who don't get all hung up on body image and looks... it's a just-be-who-you-are, everyone's-welcome kind of thing.

Bull.

Generally, I think they are just as catty toward thin, preppy men as thin, preppy men are toward them. I get angry to hear Bear411 is excluding black men, asian men, thin men or anyone who doesn't fit their own ideal. I have quit the site as well.

I am a big, bear-type guy, but I am attracted to nonbears of all races. I get tired of being teased by bear friends for my taste in men.

I apologize to anyone who has felt unwelcome at bear websites, at bear events, or by bears themselves.

But what the hell, that just leaves more of you for me... ;)

[Keeland]

YOU, are not black so there isn't much that you could understand about this.You are not white, so there's isn't much you could understand about the stupidity of your reply . . . oh, never mind. You couldn't understand, not being white and all.

[James]

...
I am a big, bear-type guy, but I am attracted to nonbears of all races. I get tired of being teased by bear friends for my taste in men.

I apologize to anyone who has felt unwelcome at bear websites, at bear events, or by bears themselves.

But what the hell, that just leaves more of you for me... ;)

Excellent reply, wish there were more guys like you.



If you meant the latter, then that's a whole different story. Bears are people, too, and they can be cliquish and form groups that seem unwelcoming to outsiders. That may be hard to comprehend, given that bears are said to be more welcoming than the gay community at large. ..

Very well said...|

[BrandonSBCA]

What kills me about the bear community is, they are supposed to be the ones who don't get all hung up on body image and looks... it's a just-be-who-you-are, everyone's-welcome kind of thing.

Bull.

Generally, I think they are just as catty toward thin, preppy men as thin, preppy men are toward them. I get angry to hear Bear411 is excluding black men, asian men, thin men or anyone who doesn't fit their own ideal. I have quit the site as well.

I am a big, bear-type guy, but I am attracted to nonbears of all races. I get tired of being teased by bear friends for my taste in men.

I apologize to anyone who has felt unwelcome at bear websites, at bear events, or by bears themselves.

But what the hell, that just leaves more of you for me... ;)

Well there are plenty of websites for bears and chasers, but bear411 is not one of them from what I'm told. Not sure about biggercity, hopefully with bearciti there will be more chasers and bears on it.

[PhtoElctcRxn]

Well there are plenty of websites for bears and chasers, but bear411 is not one of them from what I'm told. Not sure about biggercity, hopefully with bearciti there will be more chasers and bears on it.

Thanks for the recommendation Brandon, I've already joined Bearciti. Fuck bear 411. Whenever someone asks me to check out their pics on that site I just groan audibly. Btw, This has been an infomative forum thanks guys. It's nice to know I'm not alone on being rejected. (high five to James, I got recommended to male411 too. Guys just laugh when I tell them that because they never heard of it. And apparently there is also a gay411 [nod to Xenthera, I think] and I just find that hilarious because apparently I'm look more Male material than Gay material. What does that even mean? haha) I also posted my own story (it's one of the last posts on the first page).


Originally Posted by Theyoungman View Post
I just don't get it guys... Maybe I got lucky because I swear to from what you guys are telling, I swear to god that I should have been denied too, but I never have been nor recieved email from them. I know it has noting to do with my bosy hair because I have never posted a photo of my bare body. I always had clothes on. Maybe its my face. I don't know. Well if you guys hate Bear411 then thats ok. I don't. I don't have a reason to. I chat with my friends there just like any other site I'm on. I do't know.

Youngman, you don't get because for one, you're young. For two, because you have facial hair and apparently from other guys I've chatted with that's enough to get you in. See here's the thing, we're not doing this to complain (well kind of), but there are hundreds more like him that have no idea that bear411 is racist and... well I don't know a word for discriminating against non-bearishness, and seem complacent because it didn't happen to them. When I tell guys bear411 didn't accept me, they are usually pretty shocked and that annoys me. They should know about the non-acceptance policies at a site they are there to meet people. And if they are there for people like me and people like me aren't there for a reason that they don't know about, it makes them disappointed and confused as well.

Also for those of you that say well just go on another site: I would like to go on bear411 because it is a bit more exclusive as far as not just anybody can see your profile [unlike e.g. silverdaddies, which has too many without pics and worded profiles and just way too many creeps for my tastes] and that I would feel a bit more free to put up a true profile as opposed to not having pics or too much text.

The important issue to take away here is that for a community that was built on the foundations of being left out and excluded from the typical gay communities it is ironic, hypocritical, and sad that they seem to have come full circle. I think it is similar to the African-American struggle for civil rights and them turning around and having nothing to do with civil rights for gays. (Interracial marriage was considered just as abominable and unnatural at one time as gay marriage is seen today.) Of couse, the situation not even close to the magnitude to my example analogy but similar in the way it works and its effect and can be generally understood by anyone. Also, my analogy is not trying to downplay or discount the rampant racism in the gay community.

So in conclusion, I hope more eyes are opened up to bear411's tactics and I hope a better site comes along so that we don't have to worry about it anymore. In many circles it is considered the best and most respected bear site, and I think that for a site that exemplifies the many negatives about the bear community as that one, it should be taken down or boycotted. This isn't out of bitterness but for the betterment of the bear community, which has become as exponentially disillusioning, disappointing, and frustrating as the mainstream gay community. And I just don't need that bullshit.

[Kirbster]

...but there are hundreds more like him that have no idea that bear411 is racist ...I'm getting sick of this. The site is NOT racist. The folks being rejected are not being rejected due to race but other factors. I'm not defending those rejections (I don't understand what's going on since I see tons of examples of profiles that made the site that are similar to those that are being rejected) but each one of you who considers this racism is hurting the overall cause of calling out actual racism in our society. There are a lot of dark-skinned guys of different races, asians, chubs, chasers, bears, hairy, smooth...all types. By definition, that shows racism is not at work and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

I also have to laugh at the guy who suggested bearworld.com as an alternative. It's bear411 with a different header; otherwise the systems are identical and you can log in on either site with the same profile.

[PhtoElctcRxn]

I'm getting sick of this. The site is NOT racist. The folks being rejected are not being rejected due to race but other factors.

Bearcub, you took what I said out of context. I said racist and other factors. Also I didn't not talk about race really that much in my post but that is what the forum is about and if you're going to criticize people for bringing up racism then address the person who referred to it in the first place. Also regardless of racism at bear411, this forum is going to serve the issue of racism in the gay community at large and is only a microcosm sort of issue for addressing that concern. I don't think it demeans concerns about racism but brings them to the table.

So don't take things out of context and actually read the post. If you want to address charges of racism (which I was merely reiterating, as it is the topic of the post) address the person who created this forum and his charges (which are no longer online). I wouldn't doubt it exists but I was addressing the other issue in my post.

[BrandonSBCA]

mWqGVLyq_Y0

JVfsytl0dJI

Love watching these videos.

[Theyoungman]

Good video Brandon! I only watched the first one which was funny and just shouldn't have used that music.

The bears are so different. I'm glad I have one available to me. :)

I would call myself a bear, but I'm not. maybe in the future.

[Xenarthra]

And apparently there is also a gay411 [nod to Xenthera, I think]

sorry, I meant male411 in my post

[Xenarthra]

I'm getting sick of this. The site is NOT racist. The folks being rejected are not being rejected due to race but other factors. I'm not defending those rejections (I don't understand what's going on since I see tons of examples of profiles that made the site that are similar to those that are being rejected) but each one of you who considers this racism is hurting the overall cause of calling out actual racism in our society. There are a lot of dark-skinned guys of different races, asians, chubs, chasers, bears, hairy, smooth...all types. By definition, that shows racism is not at work and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

I agree that racism is not exactly the correct word for this type of discrimination, but I do think it's an apt analogy because people immediately understand the ramifications and concepts of 'excluding certain parties due to their physical characteristics.'

Now with that in mind, could I ask you to go through a thought experiment with me?

Now, pretend we are in a farm. There are chickens and ducks lining up to enter a barn. A farmer chooses whether a chicken or a duck get to enter. He is partial to chickens such that he lets in almost all chickens who try to get in. However, only one in ten ducks gets in (arbitrary ratio for this thought experiment). At the end, most all of the chickens who attempted to enter would be inside the barn, and some ducks would also be inside the barn, but a majority of the ducks would have been denied entry and stay outside.

Now, pretend there is an observer who can only see the inside of the barn. What does he see? He sees many chickens enter and some ducks, but no matter how many times he counts the ducks on the inside of the barn there is no way he tell how many ducks the farmer left outside. Or even if there *are* any ducks outside.

Maybe if the ducks quack, the observer inside can hear it and know that the farmer did not let certain ducks inside. Some of the ducks are quacking now.

[Xenarthra]

I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings on this issue or disillusion anyone with the community. To cause disillusionment is a great sadness, for the disillusioned person feels like the way they knew has been stolen from them. However, I think it is a greater sadness for one not to say "an injustice has been done to me," if one truly feels something is not quite right, for then the injustice has won over the person in some way (I am more often guilty of this than not). I love the bear community. I think the ideals and spirit of bearishness are great. Even if bear411 is run by an asshole, I think its relatively minor in the scheme of things as long as we all strive to maintain our own ideals and maybe point out pitfalls so other people don't fall into them.

[thevofl]

Bear411 is not racist it is otterist.

[BrandonSBCA]

Bear411 is not racist it is otterist.

Yep. But I see otter there on the site as well. Maybe he's just selective really.

[coffeecub]

okay okay. i used to be a bear411 member, but left due to its repetitiveness (comments and all); however, i'm kinda confused on the subject. i never was treated in an ugly way by the administrator (a dangerous word to use nowadays), but i admit the site can be annoying at times.
what i REALLY don't understand is the amount of hate aimed at this particular site. if you hate it so much, leave. if it makes you feel any better on the subject, on guestimation, about 71% on there are HIV+ and will either die shortly due to its' effects or morph into ugly creatures post-medication. there is such a thing as Karma, and oddly enough, it bites back faster and more obvious in the gay community than that of the straight.........OOOOO i said something mean.

[CallMeHTD]

Here's an intersting link to another tale (http://mrpandabehr.livejournal.com/80295.html).

I had a membership last year. I lasted a month. Ironically, I'm lean, muscular, hairy and 36. More of a daddy in training than a classic bear, but not only did I get in, I was given a free upgraded 'paid' account status, despite the fact I never gave so much as a credit card number.

The thing that's really sad is, the site is SLEAZY. The bad kind, not the good, welcome kind. I got some of the most graphic, out-of-the-blue messages from guys who wanted me to do all KINDS of insanely unsafe things to them. I'm talking really detailed requests on their first contact message to me. It was fucked up. I cancelled my account after a month.

Someone really should create an alternative site. I've heard too many stories on how biased the site owner is to believe its not true. Frankly, Bear411 is just not worth all of the drama is creates.

[Theyoungman]

Here's an intersting link to another tale (http://mrpandabehr.livejournal.com/80295.html).

I had a membership last year. I lasted a month. Ironically, I'm lean, muscular, hairy and 36. More of a daddy in training than a classic bear, but not only did I get in, I was given a free upgraded 'paid' account status, despite the fact I never gave so much as a credit card number.

The thing that's really sad is, the site is SLEAZY. The bad kind, not the good, welcome kind. I got some of the most graphic, out-of-the-blue messages from guys who wanted me to do all KINDS of insanely unsafe things to them. I'm talking really detailed requests on their first contact message to me. It was fucked up. I cancelled my account after a month.

Someone really should create an alternative site. I've heard too many stories on how biased the site owner is to believe its not true. Frankly, Bear411 is just not worth all of the drama is creates.

Funny. Only one or two guys have done that to me since last August to today and I only met one drama gueen and we don't talk anymore. Thats it. I guess i'm just lucky.

[Pacster]

BearcubCA: You may not like it, but it's a fact: People are not allowed to that page based on the personal taste of the owner.
If you are smooth and overweighted: You are in.
If you are slim and hairy: You are in.(this is why theyoungman gets in there. From his picture here it's already obvious that he got more than 3 hairs on his body)
If you are slim and smooth and got a bearish dude on the pic with you: You are in.
If you are just slim and smooth: You get redirected to that crappy other site which is of no interest for you at all cause there are about no bears on there...no matter what you write in your profile.
You could go through a list of people on here that said they are denied or accepted and you will find that fitting almost 100% of all cases(sure that some get in anyway cause the owner has a good day or knows the person etc...but those are exceptions).

This is all okay...at least in a legal way(tho I know no other page that is discriminating in this way aside from those blacks-only-sites). What sucks is that he doesn't post that big on the front page. There are a darn lot of profiles of bears on there that prefer young,smooth,slim and say so...and don't know at all that the profiles of guys they are searching for are being denied. They are being fooled.
What sucks as well is that you got to fill in a profile as chaser and finally figure out that it's all wasted cause you never had a chance at all that this profile will be accepted(just based on your looks). I guess you'd be pissed about that too...

If you are fine with an exclusive bear/chub/hairy-community, that's your beef. But then NEVER again complain if smooth,slender guys discriminate against you, cause you don't act the least better than them if you get the chance(by joining a "my kind only"-community). This is something that many guys in the selfproclaimed "oh so tollerant" bear4bear community should realize. Discrimination is a coin that usually got 2 sides..and both are equally ugly. A minority that complains about discrimination by the majority should be careful to not act the same in situations where they become the majority.

If you are on that page cause of a friend and you say you found no other way to communicate with that one then all I can say is that you didn't really try(this is the gloabal net...not a one-site-show). If you are communicating with 30 friends on there then I can tell you that 25 of those friends have likely a profile on bearwww as well and the other 5 just don't know that other site. You are supporting discrimination just cause you are lazy(at least from now on since you now definitly know what the page is about). Fortunatly for you it's not discrimation against you. This time.
That's the bottom line.


P.S. This isn't a personal attack against anyone. In parts it's just a general statement. Those that feel attacked by it likely got caught with the pants down. :^o

[XLeatherX]

What kills me about the bear community is, they are supposed to be the ones who don't get all hung up on body image and looks... it's a just-be-who-you-are, everyone's-welcome kind of thing.

Bull.

Generally, I think they are just as catty toward thin, preppy men as thin, preppy men are toward them. I get angry to hear Bear411 is excluding black men, asian men, thin men or anyone who doesn't fit their own ideal. I have quit the site as well.

I am a big, bear-type guy, but I am attracted to nonbears of all races. I get tired of being teased by bear friends for my taste in men.

I apologize to anyone who has felt unwelcome at bear websites, at bear events, or by bears themselves.

But what the hell, that just leaves more of you for me... ;)

Agreed.

Bears say that they're all exclusive and accept everyone, yet bears don't like femme/camp guys or androgenous smooth guys either.

[Storybook_Man]

Bear411 isn't nesscessarily racist just because they don't accept people who they don't like. I myself went there and tried to join but was denied, when I get a better pic maybe I can join who knows.

So basically Bear411 is a select group of people who invite only people that they find attractive etc, whatever it may be.

Edit: But I am sure you know all of this, I haven't read all of the posts, but its just a question that can be answered the same way....

[BrandonSBCA]

Agreed.

Bears say that they're all exclusive and accept everyone, yet bears don't like femme/camp guys or androgenous smooth guys either.

Weird that most of the bears that I've ran into seem to want fems and skinny smooth guys. There are tons of guys like that on bear411, but then all the chasers are unable to join which makes it hard for them to get those kinds of bears.

[BeardedWoof]

I think that Bear411 sucks since it's poorly coded. It's REALLY easy to get pics on that site without paying.

As a bisexual man and a "wolf" (a thin hairy aggressive guy) I don't feel unwelcome at bear411. But I'm young, very handsome, and white too.

I joined bear411 since I'm on most of the other sites (gay.com, BMB, BearForest, and BearCiti) and my friends are on bear411 and I figured I could use bear411 to meet other people. I've met people I connect with on Bear411 but they all live across the country.

I haven't had my profile censored or deleted; but I did put how I am perfectly fine with transgendered people, bisexuals, lesbians, camp/femme guys, drag queens, and how people should be who they are not what others want them to be.

I honestly don't like internet dating sites since it seems like it's all chat but no action. I met one guy from Bear411 but I wrote about him on here before. I met this other guy at a leather event who looked absolutely nothing like his pic on that site. I'll chat with guys and then suggest that we meet for coffee or whatever but then they won't follow through.

I noticed that a lot of guys on bear411 just spam "woof!" at you constantly. LOL I even got a "driveby woof" by a Sir all dressed in leather! This one guy constantly woofs to me and a lot of the "chats" I have with people are much of the same shit different day. Or this one guy always wants to give me a massage and doesn't get that I don't want to do that, despite the many times I've said no, or no thanks you're not my type.

But it seems to be that way on all sites. I don't go on gay.com that much since I get messages/friend requests from weird guys in my area who aren't my type and who are just into hooking up which I'm not into, and I get messages from bots/fake users. On Bigmuscle bears there are some REALLY hot guys but it's hard to meet people in general, and I sometimes feel self conscious since I don't have a gym toned body and I'm thin. One of my friends even put in his BMB profile about how hard it is to connect with people on there. This same friend had some really weird dude message him on a dating/sex site asking if he could take out all of my friend's teeth. Now I've heard about everything but that just sounds very dangerous, fucked up, and even more weird than people who are into diapers or being 'adult babies' as their kink.

I'm also on BearForest which is an OK site but I get people who are total sex pigs just spamming my inbox looking for hookups, or I've connected with people and they'll give me their YahooIM name but then either won't chat or will just ask for nude pics, to cyber, or webcam.

I'm kinda fed up with online sites like bear411 and the others I listed, as I interact with people a lot better in real life than in front of a computer.

I do however like how Bear411 has options for "oral only" or "jack off only" as I'm A LOT more into those things for sex, and I get told I'm technically a top but I don't go by that role/label or do anal sex. I wish more dating/sex sites had those options besides Bear411, gay.com, and ManHunt.

[BrandonSBCA]

Yeah it's pretty easy to get the pictures without even paying, I learned that technique a while back.

[mystery4637]

The site is bullshit, through and through.

I myself think it's painfully racist but even if you don't there are tons of other reasons to not support the site.

I've had two friends denied from the site, and I'm not going to be any member of a site that doesn't include people because they're not "bearish" enough or some other crap like that. If all bears (whatever that means, really) and all people who appreciate bears aren't welcome, I have absolutely 0 interest.

What pisses me off more than that though is the potential for the webmaster to modify your profile without notifying you, the webmaster reading all of your correspondence on the site, and the various security problems they seem to have.

Also, as other's have said, it just looks like crap.

I'd encourage everyone to check out www.bear411sucks.com and http://sultmhoor.livejournal.com/441370.html

Avoid this garbage like the plague, guys, we're all better than this.

[PhtoElctcRxn]

I just read Pacster's 2 Cents. Beautiful. I couldn't have said it better myself. Let that be true in all situations (dating, social, economic, political) not just the crappy one we've delved into here. And for those of you who don't agree with him then you just don't get it.

[BrandonSBCA]

I just read Pacster's 2 Cents. Beautiful. I couldn't have said it better myself. Let that be true in all situations (dating, social, economic, political) not just the crappy one we've delved into here. And for those of you who don't agree with him then you just don't get it.

I totally agree with Pacster, which is why I think others who can't get into bear411 should try the other bear services like bearciti or the ones already listed on another thread. I don't even pay for Bear411 I just joined it so I can talk with other people, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one in that position, I even try out bearwww but not so many people know me on that one.